Marriage in Islam - CASTE / RACE

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stariz

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Bis'Millah'ir Rahman'ir Raheem
(In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

Can a parent refuse a proposal from a good Muslim for his daughter on the basis that the suitor is not of the same race/caste?

There is no concept of caste in Islam. Racial background is a fact of life. The Qur'an considers the difference of race, colour or language as signs of the creative ability of Allah: "And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and earth and the difference of your language and colours. Lo! Here indeed are signs for men of knowledge."(Ar-Rum:22).

In chapter 49, verse 13 is the most universal doctrine of human equality and brotherhood: "Oh mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and then rendered you into nations and tribes so that you might know one another. Indeed the most honourable among you in the sight of Allah is he who is most pious."

There is a wealth of ahadith quoted by Al-Qurtubi in his commentary on this Qur'anic verse where the messenger of Allah condemned outright any racial impact on the Islamic society. For the very reason we come across many examples of people who, from a racial view, were not considered equal to Arab women marrying among the high tribal class. Bilal married the sister of AbdurRahman ibn Awf. Zayd was married to one of the noble ladies of the tribe of Quraysh and so on.

But customs die hard and no sooner are they abolished, they start to reappear again. Salman al-Farsi proposed to the daughter of Umar, the khalifa. He accepted. His knowledgeable, pious son and great companion of the Prophet(SAW) was upset. He complained to Amr ibn Al-Aas. Amr said, "Leave it to me and I will get him to retract from that." When Amr met Salman he said to him, "Congratulations. It came to my knowledge that the Commander of the Faithful humbled himself and accepted to give you his daughter in marriage." Salman felt slighted by this and thought and retorted, "By Allah, I will never accept to marry his daughter!"

Al-Hajjaj, the brute of the Ummayyad era married the daughter of Muhammad ibn Ja'far, Abdul Malik, the Ummayyad king was furious. He said to Muhammad, "You gave one of the noble of Quraysh*te women to a slave from Thaqif!" and he ordered Al-Hajjaj to divorce her.

So this social attitude is very difficult to abolish outright. It does not make a difference whether the parents are well educated or unlettered. In the new environment of living in Britain the situation may ease gradually. However, young educated people who find themselves locked in such situations have to be patient to advance their case. Failing that, I would advise them to read my article, "Guardianship in Marriage' (See page 11 for details).

..... Continueeee... http://www.islaminme.cjb.net

Posted 14 Feb 2005

Ashii says

Ashii

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SALL said:
yep u r rite,,,
spec those who belongs to HIGH casts
ie SYED,,,

par khair logon ki kya baat,,, mere paas bahishti zevar naam ki aik boook hai,, and i ve heard in pak ppl consult it frequently coz it s written by some vv known ulema,,, khair mujhe sahi se nahi pata

i read (opened) it just once and my bad luck,, ittefak se aik aisa chapter parha which deals with this cast pb
i was soo surprised coz woh chapter mei kuch aisa likha hai k yeh yeh casts achi hein,,, aur flani casts thori lower hein

i talked abt it to others,, and i ve been told k it mite b an older version of book,, now most bahishti zevar mei yeh chapter nahi hai

strange han
khair baad mei aur kuch kahein ge,,, abhi gtg

hmm,,,,,
yani k pb sirf hindu culture ka influence nahi hai

cast n race ka taluk sirf shadi se nahi hai,,, it s a simply racism pb existing in all contries,,, par masla yeh hai k hamare mazhab mei (unlike hinduism) zaat k ounch neech ki koi hesiyat nahi hai,, Allah miyan ne sab ko barabar paida kiya hai,, insaan acha bura sirf aur sirf apne amaal se hota hai.......

par yeh baat logon ko kaise samjhai jae,,
race/cast k ache bure hone pe sirf anparh log hi nahi vvv well educated bhi yakeen rakhte hein,,,
wot s the reason,,,,,,,,,,

- jab insaan mei koi aur hunar ya sift nahi hoti to phir woh sirf aur sirf apne naam/zaat/mazhab/khandan ka sahaara le k apne aap ko doosron se behtar sabit karne ki koshish karta hai....
- xenophobie,,, hamare han zyada logon ko lagta hai k yeh pb sirf western contries mei hoti hai coz tab HUM LOG victims hote hein,,, hamare han yeh pb kahin zyada hai but we cant name it coz we r not victims here

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,
sachi baat hai k mujhe sahi se iss soch ka reason nahi samajh aata,,, matlab k chahe kuch bhi ho par saari baat yahan aa k khatam ho jati hai k ISLAM MEI SAB BARABAR HEIN,, arabi ko ajmi per aur ajmi ko arbi per koi faukiyat hasil nahi
sab se herat mujhe iss baat pe hoti hai k RELIGIOUS base pe jab koi apne aap ko baki sab logon se behtar kehta hai,,
aur kya kahu yarr,,,
can someone else explain it better

plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,,
dont copy paste anything,,, u can give references par plz give it more time

Posted 14 Feb 2005

stariz says

stariz

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haan sahi kehti ho. jo chez Islam ma ha hi nahi woh kaysa accept karleta hai log. even sach pocho toa apna bara jo hote hai woh hi chahta hai ka young generation ko bhe is Cast ka game ma involve kare.

well mera sath bhe yahi problem hai
i like someone. per wo punjabi hai aur ma urdu speaking. my mom use to telling me day by day .. Riz janta ho tum kia kar rahay ho..

leikin yaar ma kya karo. bas likeness honi nahi chahiye thi aur ab hogai hai toa masla cast ka agaya hai.

ma na chahte howe bhe kisi aik side ko choose nahi kar sakta.

aur phir kuch aur friends ka sath problems ahi hoi hai.

one of the major problem is with my sister in India. usko braintumor hai aur uski report 15 feb ko ani hai. agar 'yes' to mazeed treatment hogi and if 'no' then it means ka bas uska pass kuch hi pal hai.

janti ho woh meri net sister 2000 ma bani thi. 5 years, i think kisi ko samjhna ka liye kafi hote hai aur phir ma toa usko, uska hubby ko bhe janta ho. yaha tak ka uska husband sa bhe meri baat hoti rehti hai. aur kitna ajeeb sa lagta hoga usko jis ka sath ya sab horaha ho. jis ki 7 month ki aik bachi ho. jis ki shadi ko 2 saal howe ho. usko brain tumor.

dua karna. it is very very important. yani aj ka din pata nahi kia hota hai.

I hope Allah mujhsa itni pyaari si behan ko nahi chenaga. u know sometimes i felt things ka yaar phela meri mot ahay then sahi hai. coz apna kisi qareebi fellow ko marte daikhna/sunna bohat hi hurt karta hai.

khair sorry topic kuch aur tha ma kaha sa kaha la gaya

tense hona shayd is liye

please pray for her. her name is Marium.

Was'Salam

Posted 15 Feb 2005

Ashii says

Ashii

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hey riz
really sorry to hear abt ur sis,,,
Allah miyan unhein sehet dein,,, aur lambi zindagi dein Ameen
aap fikar nahi karo Insha Allah sab theek ho jae ga,, i ll pray for her zuroor

hmm,,,,,,
sorry no comments from my side abt ur pers pb
meri kahi hui baat buri bhi lag sakti hai
Allah miyan aap ki mushkil asaan karein aur sab ko seedha rata dikha'ain

Posted 15 Feb 2005

stariz says

stariz

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thanks SALL

so tumhara koi eye opening experince about Marriage, jis ma cast ki problem hoi ho?

Posted 15 Feb 2005

Ashii says

Ashii

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hmmmmmmm,,
mere jaane walon mei to nahi

o welll u can say,,, as i mentioned in other topic k meri friend ko aik french (jo k covert hona chahta tha) ne propose kiya tha aur parents nahi maane
an other gal who married a madrasi (indian) muslim aur unn k ghar pe bohoottt bara masla khara ho gaya tha,,,
hmmmm and one of my indian cousin married a paki gal jo k hai bhi punjabi aur diff muslim sect se hai,, dono taraf kafi garmagaram hui,, par ab dono shukar hai theek hein

but lemme tell u one thing,, with alllll respect
hamare han k parents pehle to bohot gussa hote hein aur bohot drama karte hein,,, but once shadi ho jae and u r happy with ur wife/husband to theek ho jate hein sab

hmm,,, kuch arsa pehle i met an auntie jii,,, who was looking a gal for her son,,, and she said something that shocked me
as woh log SYED hein aur woh bhi koi spec kisam k, ,dont know exactly,,,, to she said "arey ab kahin aur shadi kar k apna khandan to kharab nahi karna na"
agar wahan meri amma jaan na bethi hoti to aisa haal karna tha me ne unn ka k yaad rakhti mohtarma

kya na yarrrr,,,
pagal kar dein ge yeh log mujhe

Posted 15 Feb 2005

stariz says

stariz

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haa haaaaa

haan sahi keh rahi ho aysa hi hota hai

jis indian sister ka bara mai mena tum ko bataya thana, about report. unhona love marriage hi ki thi aur unki life bhe ajeb si guzri hai.

unka father toa razi thay rishta say lekin mother razi nahi hoi thi. aur abhe last year unki ammi ka inteqal hoa hai. apna last time unka qareeb Marium(sister) ka husband na hi khidmat ki. baki unki ammi ka bhaiyo na pocha tak nahi. last time inteqal sa kuch waqt phela unhona Shehzad (marium ka husband) sa kaha tha ka ma apko galat samjhti rahi thi mujhay maaf kardiye ga.

it's a big thing ka aysa bhe hota hai.

acha aik taraf log religious bhe hote hai lekin jaya onki ana ka mamla ata hai waha religion koi meaning nahi rakhta bohat so ka liye. ka nahi she is punjabi/urdu speaking et.c etc..

yaar is sa kia hota hai. usko daikho uski family ko daikho, if they are good muslims then what's wrong... kia bura hai.. aur phir khud Rasool Allah (saw) na kaha hai ka kisi Arbi ko kisi Ajmi per aur kisi Ajmi ko Arbi per koi fazilat hasil nahi. we all are equal then why peoples??? hena... hmm

anyway i like this topic i think aur logo ko bhe hissa lena chahiye. is ma mirch bhe hai masala bhe kafi hai

Posted 15 Feb 2005

Badal says

Badal

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The Prophet’s Family Marrying Outside the Family:

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

"First of all, let me correct some misconceptions. Syeds or Bani Hashim who belong to the family of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) are not a special or superior caste in Islam. They are not like Brahmins in Hinduism. We love and respect our Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and his family. So we also respect his family, and we even extend this respect to all the people who belong to his extended family. But they have no extra privileges in Islam. They are not better Muslims simply because they are Syeds. It is not right for them to call other Muslims "regular" and consider themselves as "more" Muslims. The Syed women are not like “mothers” to other non-Syed Muslims. Only the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) are Mothers of the Believers. No other women from the family of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) were given this title.

Also, there is no prohibition in Islam for a Syed man to marry a non-Syed woman or a Syed woman to marry a non-Syed man. Islam spread in the Indian subcontinent because it was egalitarian. It was against the caste system, but unfortunately Muslims soon adopted the Hindu caste system and made their own "dhat" (caste) system.

All Muslims are equal. The best among them are those who are most conscious of Allah. Allah says, "Surely the noblest of you in the sight of Allah are those who are the most pious among you." (Al-Hujurat: 13)

Thus any Muslim can marry any other Muslim male or female. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) himself arranged the marriage of his cousin Zaynab with his slave Zayd.

Scholars have spoken about compatibility and equality in marriage. It is good to consider the compatibility of morals, manners, religiousness, age, education, physical looks, country of origin, race, ethnicity, family background, et cetera. These things make marriage more successful and permanent. The more the bride and groom are of equal status, the more suitable they are for each other. But these things are only as recommendations for marriage. They are common sense rules; they are not conditions for the marriage in Islam.

The only marriages that are prohibited are those that are mentioned in the Qur'an in Surat an-Nisa': 23, and Allah says in the following verse, "… except for these women, all others are lawful, provided you seek them in marriage…" (An-Nisa': 24)."

Posted 15 Feb 2005

stariz says

stariz

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sahi hai

bilkul sahi kaha hai apna

so Zeeshan tumhara koi eye opening experince?

Posted 15 Feb 2005

Badal says

Badal

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Rizwan bhai CASTE ki tu samajh aati hai, par te RACE kia hai? aur abhi jo main ne aik Dr ki statement di thi us main RACE ko aik compatibility issue kaha gya hai (look at the paragraph in bold) which should considered. what you say about it. is ko define tu karain pehlay.

Posted 16 Feb 2005

Ashii says

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RACE = nasal
jaise aam taur pe ghoron (horses) ki nasal ka bohot khyal rakha jata hai,, same with dogs

insaan aur janvar ko aik level pe la khara kiya hai logon ne

insanon mei,,, asians, chinese, white, black,, yeh alag alag naslein hein

jahan tak compatibility ka taluk hai to,,,, aap ki post galt nahi hai,,, diff races or areas k logon k apne rehne sehne k tareeke hote hein,, iss liye saath rehne mei kuch pb ho sakti hai
but see dear,,, hamare han futur couple ki aadat,, pasand/napasand,, soch ko koi khaas ehmiyat nahi di jati,, jo k zyada important hein,,, to race/ethnicity to bohot baad mei aate hein

Posted 16 Feb 2005

Badal says

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yani RACE ka khyal rakha jaey tu behtar hai for a successfull marriage, but not necessary, jahaan doorsi buhat si achi batain consider kar li jain jo successful marriage kay liye kafi hoon aur RACE ko consider na karna harmful na ho tu isay ignore kiya ja sakta hai.

Posted 16 Feb 2005

Ashii says

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LOVE THE DIFFERENCE

Posted 17 Feb 2005

stariz says

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yeah I think sahi kaha hai Sall na..

apko hayrat kyu horahi hai Zeeshan?

Posted 17 Feb 2005

Badal says

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kia sahi kaha hai SALL nay jo main ghalat samjha hoon, aur hayrat kis baat ki?

Posted 17 Feb 2005

Shahrukh Khan says

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PARENTS JUST THINKS OF FAMILY...THEY DONT EVEN ASK KEY ZINDAGI JISNE GUZARNI HAI USKI KHUSHI HAI BHI YA NAHI...HADEES MAIN BHI LIKHA HAI KEY" NIKAH SE PEHLE LARKI KI MARZI HONI CHAHIYEY..BUTT NOBODY FOLLOW THIS

Posted 17 Feb 2005

stariz says

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Zeeshan bhai ma samjha apko herat hoi thi as what I thought..

wasa yaar aj kal app nazar nahi atay?
shadi toa nahi hogahi

Posted 17 Feb 2005

stariz says

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shahrukh khan said:
PARENTS JUST THINKS OF FAMILY...THEY DONT EVEN ASK KEY ZINDAGI JISNE GUZARNI HAI USKI KHUSHI HAI BHI YA NAHI...HADEES MAIN BHI LIKHA HAI KEY" NIKAH SE PEHLE LARKI KI MARZI HONI CHAHIYEY..BUTT NOBODY FOLLOW THIS

sssshhhhhhhhhhh
ahista bolo
agar parents na sunlia na toa jotee parenga

wasa yaar thek hai sahi hai.. per parents bhe galat nahi hote.. they are always think positive about us.. coz they have experince.. haan wo baat alag hai ka kuch log ANA ka masla bana leta hai aur CAST ko bech ma late hai.. khair who knows.. hum ma sa kisi na kisi ko toa qadam othana hi parega na is beja role cast ka role ko break karna ka liye... khair apna bacho ka bara ma acha socha ja sakta hai ... it's all about nature aur tarbiat.. baqi kia hona hai ya ALLAH janta hai

wasa shahrukh tumhari shadi toa hogai hai.. phir itna kyu ochal rahay ho?

Posted 17 Feb 2005

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