S-Kuddi - I didn't know about such strong existence of cast system in paki society until recently. I denounce it outrightly -- clearly violates basic tenets of islam. Why do we than point fingers at cast system among Hindus I feel ashamed for we have returned to JAHILIYAH instead of stepping forward.

Now, parents pride stand ahead of children's happiness might be true too. Obedience of parents is obedience of Allah and only exception to that is when they invite you share partners with Allah. One may argue that violation of Islamic principle can be valid excuse for disobedience. This argument is not valid. However, Islam does not prevent children from expressing their views and disagreement with parents. We have been advised in the Quran and hadith how to address parents, thus we should take excessive caution before we present ourselves. Our arguments, speech and tone of it in no way should cause hurt to their hearts.

Choosing life-partners based of love affairs and physical attractions are newly learned behaviors from movies and influences from non-Islamic cultures and values. This way of life has brought serious problems in societies where it has been in practice for long time. Now we are trying to adopt similar ways just because westerners do it. Our hearts are gripped in the clutches of the materials of the world and thus fullfilment of its requirements become greater obligaions for us.

LOL,, NO I DO BELIEVE THAT WHEN CHOOSING ONES PARTNER IT MUST BE DONE IN A HALAL WAY, THIS WAY PARENTS MUST HAVE A SAY, ISLAM ALLOWS US TO HAVE A SAY IN OUR MARRIAGE, THIS DATING AND SEEING NON MEHRAM AS IN SOCIETY TODAY IS NOT PROHIBITED IN ISLAM. I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS THE WAY TOWARDS FINDING A LIFE PARTNER, OUR PARENTS MUST CONSENT TO OUR MARRIAGE CHOICES.

"OBEDIENCE TO PARENTS IS OBEDIENCE TO ALLAH" THIS IS TRUE, YOU MUST NOT GO AGAINST YOUR PARENTS WISHES, THIS I AGREE WITH, BUT ONE MUST ALSO THINK OF ONE WELLBEING, THEIR OWN FUTURE AND IF PARENTS PUT THEIR PRIDE BEFORE YOUR HAPPINESS WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THAT SITUATION?

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSATND THAT THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE IN PAKISTANI SOCIETY, NOT ONLY WHERE I LIVE BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD, EVEN IN PLACES WHERE SOCIETY IS BUILT AND VIEWS ARE MODERN. YOU MAY THINK IT ONLY EXISTS WHERE EDUCATION IS POOR AND SOCIETY IS LESS ECONOMICALLY ADVANCED, BUT IT EXISTS EVERYWHERE. THE HINDU RELIGION CONSISTS OF CASTS, ONE CAN ONLY SEE THIS THIS AS AN INFLUENCE...MAYBE THIS IS WHERE THE PAKISTANI CAST SYSTEM ORIGINATED? WHEN PAKISTAN AND INDIA WHERE NOT TWO BUT ONE NATION?

I'M NOT REALLY SURE BUT SOME TRADITIONS AND VALUES ARE REFLECTED FROM THIS ERA, MAYBE THE CAST SYSTEM IS ALSO ENCOURAGED FROM THE HINDU TRADITION.

WE MUST NOT CONFUSE RELIGION WITH TRADITION, CAST IS A TRADITIONAL ISSUE AND NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE, WE CANNOT SAY THAT BECAUSE HINDUS BELIEVE THIS IS A RIGHT DOING AND SO DO MUSLIMS. THIS IS WHERE PROBLEMS ARISE, PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THIS IS ISLAMIC RULE, WHERE IT IS JUST A WAY OF THINKING (PAKISTANI)

i so agree to ths thng!

sohni:

CAST IS A TRADITIONAL ISSUE AND NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE

so true!

YES, IT IS EASY TO GO WRONG HERE, THIS IS EASILY MISUNDERSTOOD.

wuts ur caste sohni!

LOL BADSHAH....HERE I AM POORING MY HEART OUT SAYING CASTS SHUDNT BE THE ISSUE AND YOU GO AND ASK THE UNASKABLE

You are absolutely right about children having freedom to accept or reject a proposal and to express their dissent, particularly in matters of their future an life.

SohniKuddi:

WE MUST NOT CONFUSE RELIGION WITH TRADITION, CAST IS A TRADITIONAL ISSUE AND NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE

Sorry Sonni, you are wrong there. Islam is a complete way of life and nothing stands out side of its folds.

Islam came to eradicate unjust traditions and practices. Burying girls alive was a tradition in pre-Islamic Arab society. Islam aborted that tradition with injunctions against that practice.

Cast system is dead wrong whether practiced in the name of religion or tradition, in Pakistan or in India or elsewhere. It is a system of ignorance.

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING S.D. IS THAT CASTS IS AN ISLAMIC ISSUE...AND THAT IT IS TRUE TO SAY THAT "MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN CASTS"

I MUST DISAGREE WITH YOU HERE.
THE BURIAL OF CHILDREN IS A COMPLETELY UNRELATED MATTER, WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT BELIEVING IN CASTS IS NOT ENCOURAGED BY OUR RELIGION.

SohniKuddi:

LOL,, NO I DO BELIEVE THAT WHEN CHOOSING ONES PARTNER IT MUST BE DONE IN A HALAL WAY, THIS WAY PARENTS MUST HAVE A SAY, ISLAM ALLOWS US TO HAVE A SAY IN OUR MARRIAGE, THIS DATING AND SEEING NON MEHRAM AS IN SOCIETY TODAY IS NOT PROHIBITED IN ISLAM. I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS THE WAY TOWARDS FINDING A LIFE PARTNER, OUR PARENTS MUST CONSENT TO OUR MARRIAGE CHOICES.

Dating and seeing non-mehram is absolutely prohibited in Islam - Islam offers other alternatives.

"OUR PARENTS MUST CONSENT TO OUR MARRIAGE CHOICES", they have no obligation to consent to our marriage choices but they have the right to dissent to our marriage choices.

SohniKuddi:

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING S.D. IS THAT CASTS IS AN ISLAMIC ISSUE...AND THAT IT IS TRUE TO SAY THAT "MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN CASTS"

I MUST DISAGREE WITH YOU HERE.
THE BURIAL OF CHILDREN IS A COMPLETELY UNRELATED MATTER, WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT BELIEVING IN CASTS IS NOT ENCOURAGED BY OUR RELIGION.

I guess I was not clear in my expression. I didn't say that. What I meant to say was, there is no issue that Islam does not address. Islam does not recognize the cast system, it rather rejects it and calls for equality.

I referred to burying children example only to show Islam tackles traditions of oppressive nature. In short, there is nothing that is traditional falling out of Islams span.

Smooth_daddy:

they have no obligation to consent to our marriage choices but they have the right to dissent to our marriage choices.

huh!

SD..tell me 1 thng!
isnt it bad tht parents impose their decision!

it's not just bad, its wrong! we can't make one right out of two wrongs.

wht does tht mean!
now i m confused

explain plz!

meaning, its wrong for parents to impose their decisions and it is also wrong for kids to impose their decisions upon parents.

okies i get it!
bt now the qs?s is how to avoid it!!!
come to think abt it!..Islam does not recognize the cast system
thn how come parents are so in favour of it!
i mean..thy r experienced n ofcourse moreeeee educated abt ISlam thn childern r!

wuteva

i think dat some of the core features r depicted in the castes, they do take the traits they r famous for

kash_beauty:

thn how come parents are so in favour of it!
i mean..thy r experienced n ofcourse moreeeee educated abt ISlam thn childern r!

They may be educated but do not practice it or they may have forgotten it yet they are maintaining status quo.

Pakis in general are racist but they don't accept it. Younger generation with greater awareness and better practice of their religion can reduce cast and other racial problems.

When an oppressive system is imposed upon people, after while they break through it. No matter how much we preach parental respect, some hard headed youngsters will defy it and break all bounds of culture and tradition. If you want to change the system, let your children exercise freedoms you lacked. Remember, freedom has its limits and a price.

OH....I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN SMOOTH DADDY, (ISLAM REJECTS CASTS AND CALLS FOR EQUALITY)


LOL AND I ALSO SEE THAT I HAVE MADE A MISTAKE IN MY POST AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE, WHERE IT SAYS THAT ISLAM DOES NOT PROHIBIT THE MEETING WITH A NON MEHRAM, SORRY GUYZZZ I WILL EDIT IT.

Smooth_daddy:

They may be educated but do not practice it or they may have forgotten it yet they are maintaining status quo.

Pakis in general are racist but they don't accept it. Younger generation with greater awareness and better practice of their religion can reduce cast and other racial problems.

When an oppressive system is imposed upon people, after while they break through it. No matter how much we preach parental respect, some hard headed youngsters will defy it and break all bounds of culture and tradition. If you want to change the system, let your children exercise freedoms you lacked. Remember, freedom has its limits and a price.

ok!now ths brings somethng else up!..
bt i wud make a topic abt tht
thn u can tell me there!

thanx SD

SohniKuddi:

Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?

hmmmmmm yeh u rite its a major fault in our society
but abhi bahut time lagye ga ager ham is ko repair bhi karyen
suppose
ager main kisi aur cast ki larki se shadi ker ke yeh fault repair kerna hcaoo to merye parents is ki bahut khilafwarzi karyen gayen kyoon ke woh old era ke log hian
aur may be us larki ke parents bhi essa karyen
wesye ager ham is ko repair kerna hcaye to ker saktyen hian but ham try nahi kartye yehi bari prblm hia

You should have stomuch to stand opposition and pressure if you want to go against the norms.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OPPOSITIONS IF WE TRIED TO MAKE ANY MOVE TOWARDS "DEMOLISHING" THE IDEA OF CASTS. I DON'T THINK ANYONE CAN MARRY INTO A DIFFERENT CAST WITHOUT HAVING FREINDS AND RELATIVES MAKING STORIES OR FINDING WAYS TO DEGRADE YOU....IT'S LIKE TABOO OF THE PAKISTANI VIEW.   

GodSpeed in ur quest sohni!

SohniKuddi:

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OPPOSITIONS IF WE TRIED TO MAKE ANY MOVE TOWARDS "DEMOLISHING" THE IDEA OF CASTS. I DON'T THINK ANYONE CAN MARRY INTO A DIFFERENT CAST WITHOUT HAVING FREINDS AND RELATIVES MAKING STORIES OR FINDING WAYS TO DEGRADE YOU....IT'S LIKE TABOO OF THE PAKISTANI VIEW.   

That's so true but there are other ways to start the process of change.

Support someone who married outside the cast or norms of family (Muslim only). Advocate for try to get support within family for ones who were casted out etc.

BadShaH1:

GodSpeed in ur quest sohni!

ERRRR THANK YOU...

SohniKuddi:

Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?

3 simple words
This is Haram

You know...Islam allows us to marry anyone who is Muslim...whether...black, white, mexican, african, chinese.

So why is it that parents cant just drop the rubbish tradition of marrying within your cast. I can relate to this situation very much so. My fmaily thinks this way. Especially my dads fmaily. Although...my mothers fmaily is a bit more...open about things.

The new generation to get married in my fmaily. Has married out of their cast. And I hope many more marirages to come will be same also.

Someone has to break the tradition. We are the next generation so why not be us.

who cares if the guy is rich or poor...
as long as he has knowledge about islam...
he's kind hearted
generous
and loving.

There's nothing like someone in the family can stand wid ya dolly!
I wld take a step further - knowledge and practice of the deen (in a balanced way)

LiL_DollY:

SohniKuddi:

Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?

3 simple words
This is Haram

You know...Islam allows us to marry anyone who is Muslim...whether...black, white, mexican, african, chinese.

So why is it that parents cant just drop the rubbish tradition of marrying within your cast. I can relate to this situation very much so. My fmaily thinks this way. Especially my dads fmaily. Although...my mothers fmaily is a bit more...open about things.

The new generation to get married in my fmaily. Has married out of their cast. And I hope many more marirages to come will be same also.

Someone has to break the tradition. We are the next generation so why not be us.

EXACTLY MY POINT, YOU SEE IF OUR PARENTS CAN'T SWALLOW THEIR PRIDE, IF OUR PARENTS DON'T LISTEN TO "LOGON KI BATEIN" THERE IS NO SIN IN MARRYING OUTSIDE YOUR CAST, OR INTO ANOTHER RACE, AS LONG AS THE PERSON IS MUSLIM, (OR FOR MALES PEOPLE OF THE BOOK)

YES SO THAT NEW GENERATION THAT HAVE MARRIED OUT OF THEIR CAST...DO PEOPLE SAY STUFF ABOUT THEM BEHIND THEIR BACK DOLLY? I MEAN DO PEOPLESAY STUFF LIKE "THEY CAN'T FIND A GOOD HIGHER CAST RISHTA SO THEY MARRY INTO A LOWER INFERIOR CAST?" COS THATS WHT I'M SAYIN U KNOW THAT PPL TEND TO SAY STUFF, WE HAVE THE SAME PROB HERE, MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILY LOOK DOWN ON PPL WHO GET ARE IF INFERIOR CAST, AND IF NE1 MARRIES INTO A LOWER CAST GOSSIP STARTS FLYING AROUND AND THAT PERSON IS ALSO SEEN AS INFERIOR, WE DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM OF CHOSING WHO WE WANA MARRY COS OF CAST. I'VE DISCUSSED THIS A LOT WITH PPL WHO BELIEVE AND SUPPORT THE CAST SYSTEM BUT THEY SEEM TO BELIEVE THEY ARE RIGHT AND THAT IT'S DESTINY LOLZ.

YES IT IS HARAM, I MEAN WE SHOULD BELIEVE IN EQUALITY, WE ARE DIVIDED AS MUSLIMS INTO SCHISMS AND ALSO US PAKISTANIS ARE FURTHER DIVIDED INTO CASTS, SO WHERES THE EQUALITY?

ERRM ABOUT THE GENERATION THING, DO WE HAVE THE GUTS? I MEAN IS THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT PPLS WORDS? I KNOW WE MUST DO THE RIGHT THING BUT WON'T THE BELIEFS OF OUR PARENTS AND FAMILIES BE REFLECTED ON THIS GENERATION ALSO, I EXPLAINED IN AN EARLIER POST ABOUT THIS AND IT SEEMS THAT SOME PPL OF OUR GENERATION STILL DO BELIEVE THIS.