I wouldn't interpret them because I don't belive in the validity of their translation. the state of my faith is between me and god, no second person, not to judge or comment, you have some nerve saying it is corrupt.

we're on different wavelengths, so i'm simply not going to reply to you anymore, it's like hitting like my head against a wall.

Badal:

Where i stated that it justifies this sin?

=>

the reason which leaded that man to such a big crime? His wife refused him to fulfil his desire with her which was his right, and this leaded him to a much bigger crime and sin.

You 'justified (i.e. explained) the man's actions by saying that he raped the little girl because his wife refused 'to fulfil his desire with her'

the man is a sadist, his wife and the girl are victims.

Now you accepted your defeat

the authenticity of these hadiths in unquestionable, they are in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim books of Ahadith and are "Sahih". anyone suspecting their authenticity would be commiting suicide.

And i didnt justified. i poitend out the cause only, as i explained ealier. if you cant understand, if your little brain, i can help much.

"the man is a sadist, his wife and the girl are victims." man is sadist, the girl is the victim and wife wasnt a victim, what he did to her? instead she became a cause with other causes of this evil, the heinous crime of that man.

Badal:

the authenticity of these hadiths in unquestionable, they are in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim books of Ahadith and are "Sahih". anyone suspecting their authenticity would be commiting suicide.

Every translation of any religious is flawed. That is a fact not an opinion. A religious text only stays prestine as long as it is in its original language.

Badal:

And i didnt justified. i poitend out the cause only, as i explained ealier. if you cant understand, if your little brain, i can help much.

"the man is a sadist, his wife and the girl are victims." man is sadist, the girl is the victim and wife wasnt a victim, what he did to her? instead she became a cause with other causes of this evil, the heinous crime of that man.

Defeat? To you? Never.

You need to get an English dictionary because you obviously don't understand what the words, Justify, Defeat, Sex, Rape, mean. I'm not going to fall to your level and resort to name calling, so here I'm taking the liberty of giving you the meaning of those words, taken from dictionary.com:


rape (n)

1The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.


tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes
To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.
To seize and carry off by force.
To plunder or pillage.


i.e. if it isn't forced, it's not rape but sex. but you don't know what sex means either, here:

Sex means

Next one - justify

v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
v. tr.
1To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2To declare free of blame; absolve.
3To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.

4Law.
To demonstrate sufficient legal reason for (an action taken).
To prove to be qualified as a bondsman.

LiL_DollY:

I just heard last week a terrible story from my sister. About a Pakistani
man and his perverted mind. They has shown the story on ptv. Its about
a Man...He had a beard. He asked his wife to follow through with duties
that husband and wife do. The wife refused. This man had adopted his
four year old niece. He took his niece to a seperate room. And raped
her...many times. He cut her face and picked her up and through her
against the wall...one of her eyes came out of the socket.

And at the end the man said: I dont know what got into me.

Now thats a buncha...BS
If I ever met him. I would slap him so hard I swear.

That child has lived through everything and shes gonna have a hella of a
life facing the future knowing whats been done to her.

Its really upsetting. But very common.

I begin to tel my sister that you cant really trust anyone not even your
own family and close friends sometimes.

Rape/molestation especially to children happens USUALLY by someone
very close to the family.

And 1/3 people are touched inappropraitely everyday.

Makes you think twice doesnt it. About being a lil more protective when
leaving your duaghters especially around uncles, or other males.

what do you think?

no court no trial . juz hang him till death

Chandramuki:

Badal:

the authenticity of these hadiths in unquestionable, they are in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim books of Ahadith and are "Sahih". anyone suspecting their authenticity would be commiting suicide.

Every translation of any religious is flawed. That is a fact not an opinion. A religious text only stays prestine as long as it is in its original language.

Badal:

And i didnt justified. i poitend out the cause only, as i explained ealier. if you cant understand, if your little brain, i can help much.

"the man is a sadist, his wife and the girl are victims." man is sadist, the girl is the victim and wife wasnt a victim, what he did to her? instead she became a cause with other causes of this evil, the heinous crime of that man.

Defeat? To you? Never.

You need to get an English dictionary because you obviously don't understand what the words, Justify, Defeat, Sex, Rape, mean. I'm not going to fall to your level and resort to name calling, so here I'm taking the liberty of giving you the meaning of those words, taken from dictionary.com:


rape (n)

1The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.


tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes
To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.
To seize and carry off by force.
To plunder or pillage.


i.e. if it isn't forced, it's not rape but sex. but you don't know what sex means either, here:

Sex means

Next one - justify

v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
v. tr.
1To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2To declare free of blame; absolve.
3To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.

4Law.
To demonstrate sufficient legal reason for (an action taken).
To prove to be qualified as a bondsman.

Your explanation is totally flawed, you didnt even get me. What i said earlier is sufficinet, and needs no more explanation from me. Every one with a little sense can understand it well, i repeat. Now let others comment on it too.

Like I said before, I'm on a different wavelength to you, you don't understand me because you're not in my league. You're backward, homophobic, racist and sexist chauvinist - none of things which I or most of the members here are. Now let others comment on it? When did I stop anyone from commenting on this thread? You are the one with obssessed with posting back on anything I say.

Badal, I disagree with you in the fact that his wife's refusal led him to a crime of unparallel proportions. Now, i can take it as the straw that broke camel's back. I think there are a lot of reasons that led the man to this crime.

ahadeeth you mentioned are true and authentic. I must, however, mention that these ahadeeth are to discourage a woman from refusing to the call of husband. when she is able to (physically, emotionally and mentally) but refuses only to tease the man, she is in contempt of hadeeth. Of course, if she's ill, tired, or when she feels her husband is abusive or is drunk or high on drugs, she may refuse to her husband. Allah knows the best.

CM: you are taking it to the other side of the spectrum. Your argument of hadeeth's validity is weak. you have not stated a[n] opinion of a scholar who's versed in the original language and religion to refute badal's claims. I think (I could be totally wrong) that you reject this hadeeth becuase it is contrary to your set of believes but you don't want to say that either.

Chandramuki:

Like I said before, I'm on a different wavelength to you, you don't understand me because you're not in my league. You're backward, homophobic, racist and sexist chauvinist - none of things which I or most of the members here are. Now let others comment on it? When did I stop anyone from commenting on this thread? You are the one with obssessed with posting back on anything I say.

"backward, homophobic, racist and sexist chauvinist", I was expecting the same from you, dont worry personal attacks never bother me. Its my relegion for which i bother.

Yes you are at diffrent wavelenght because I respect and understand my relegion contrasting you.

Smooth_daddy:

Badal, I disagree with you in the fact that his wife's refusal led him to a crime of unparallel proportions. Now, i can take it as the straw that broke camel's back. I think there are a lot of reasons that led the man to this crime.

ahadeeth you mentioned are true and authentic. I must, however, mention that these ahadeeth are to discourage a woman from refusing to the call of husband. when she is able to (physically, emotionally and mentally) but refuses only to tease the man, she is in contempt of hadeeth. Of course, if she's ill, tired, or when she feels her husband is abusive or is drunk or high on drugs, she may refuse to her husband. Allah knows the best.

I didnt say this is the ONLY reason, this is ONE of the reasons, others were songs and TV which was running at that time, and there may be other ones. so no offense.

You explained ahadith well, but can you proove that she was ill, or the man was drunk or abusive? No, it wasnt the case. She was (and is) in good health, and everyone knows he was a pious man, not a drunk. And perhaps you forgot, the Prophet said "she must go to him even if she is occupied with the oven", so work is of no importance, obviously she could do it latter. Its our Prophets words, cant be changed or allowed to be misinterpretted.

Perhaps you should read the interview of the man and women, he told what leaded him to such a grave sin. Its available on geo.

Smooth_daddy:

Badal, I disagree with you in the fact that his
wife's refusal led him to a crime of unparallel proportions. Now, i can take
it as the straw that broke camel's back. I think there are a lot of reasons
that led the man to this crime.

ahadeeth you mentioned are true and authentic. I must, however,
mention that these ahadeeth are to discourage a woman from refusing to
the call of husband. when she is able to (physically, emotionally and
mentally) but refuses only to tease the man, she is in contempt of
hadeeth. Of course, if she's ill, tired, or when she feels her husband is
abusive or is drunk or high on drugs, she may refuse to her husband.
Allah knows the best.

CM: you are taking it to the other side of the spectrum. Your argument of
hadeeth's validity is weak. you have not stated a[n] opinion of a scholar
who's versed in the original language and religion to refute badal's
claims. I think (I could be totally wrong) that you reject this hadeeth
becuase it is contrary to your set of believes but you don't want to say
that either.

If the wife refused why didnt he jsut pick her up and take her
and not give her a choice
it still doesnt give him the choice to hurt someone else

Why Do PAKi WiErdos watch these things on tv in the first place if it
makes them whtever....

Dolly, it didnt gave him any choice, that is what we are condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for his crime in Islam is surely Death.

LiL_DollY:

Why Do PAKi WiErdos watch these things on tv in the first place if it
makes them whtever....

Yeah but Dolly how bad/arousing could the programme on tv have been? i mean P**N is banned from pakistani screens and with all the censorship i doubt anything so explicit could have driven him, no it was his own sick mind and lack of self control, blaming on the tv was just a bid for him to escape the blame.

Badal:

Dolly, it didnt gave him any choice, that is what we are
condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for
his crime in Islam is surely Death.

HOnestly this is my opnion
he did what he did
and leave the rest to Allah (SWT)
thats were his real punishment will reside
and there is no punishment that like that of GODS
so just drop the topic about punishment.

Chandramuki:

LiL_DollY:

Why Do PAKi WiErdos watch
these things on tv in the first place if it
makes them whtever....

Yeah but Dolly how bad/arousing could the programme on tv have been?
i mean P**N is banned from pakistani screens and with all the censorship
i doubt anything so explicit could have driven him, no it was his own sick
mind and lack of self control, blaming on the tv was just a bid for him to
escape the blame.

yeah but these certain men look at girls wearing something like a lil
revealing and thats it for them...
like indian movies
there clothed
but wearing so less...
that will do it for old paki men

LiL_DollY:

Badal:

Dolly, it didnt gave him any choice, that is what we are
condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for
his crime in Islam is surely Death.

HOnestly this is my opnion
he did what he did
and leave the rest to Allah (SWT)
thats were his real punishment will reside
and there is no punishment that like that of GODS
so just drop the topic about punishment.

No dolly, its not honesty with the victim to let the criminal at his own. What we leave on Allah is the sin for which thers no punishment, like giving up Prayer, Fasting, etc, its between man and Allah only. Also its Allah's order to punish the criminals so that other may refrain from such crimes. You know its a society not a Jungle (forest).

Badal:

LiL_DollY:

Badal:

Dolly, it didnt gave
him any choice, that is what we are
condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for
his crime in Islam is surely Death.

HOnestly this is my opnion
he did what he did
and leave the rest to Allah (SWT)
thats were his real punishment will reside
and there is no punishment that like that of GODS
so just drop the topic about punishment.

No dolly, its not honesty with the victim to let the criminal at his own.
What we leave on Allah is the sin for which thers no punishment, like
giving up Prayer, Fasting, etc, its between man and Allah only. Also its
Allah's order to punish the criminals so that other may refrain from such
crimes. You know its a society not a Jungle (forest).

Yeah but open the quran and it says that ALLAH (SWT) is oft forgiving and
merciful. IF the guys crys his head off and repents then people should
give him a second chance.

(I mean I wouldnt want to at all):I agree he should be punished
but dont think about the worse way to punish him
Leave it Allah (SWT)

LiL_DollY:

Badal:

LiL_DollY:

Badal:

Dolly, it didnt gave
him any choice, that is what we are
condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for
his crime in Islam is surely Death.

HOnestly this is my opnion
he did what he did
and leave the rest to Allah (SWT)
thats were his real punishment will reside
and there is no punishment that like that of GODS
so just drop the topic about punishment.

No dolly, its not honesty with the victim to let the criminal at his own.
What we leave on Allah is the sin for which thers no punishment, like
giving up Prayer, Fasting, etc, its between man and Allah only. Also its
Allah's order to punish the criminals so that other may refrain from such
crimes. You know its a society not a Jungle (forest).

Yeah but open the quran and it says that ALLAH (SWT) is oft forgiving and
merciful. IF the guys crys his head off and repents then people should
give him a second chance.

(I mean I wouldnt want to at all):I agree he should be punished
but dont think about the worse way to punish him
Leave it Allah (SWT)

Yes, Allah recommends forgiving for sins which are related to humans only, for example murder and robbery. Murderer and robber can be forgiven BY the affectees. Raping and child molesting, homosexuality, etc are mainly related to Allah (and also the victims if they got hurted, injured, even dead etc). If such sin becomes open and evident even if the affectees dont complain, it is the responsibilty of the Islami Govt to punish the sinner, because its open now and can affect the society, and to apply Allah's Laws in the earth. If someone manages to hide his sin and then repents then Allah is most forgiving, and no one has any right to accuse him if he cant provide an evidence. That is what our relegion says.

But the sin of this person is evident, everyone knows it now. morover he didnt just break Allah's law, but also severly hurted the CHILD. The relatives of the child can forgive what he did to the child, but not what he did in relation to Allah. Yes he did repent, and that is why he surrendered, police didnt arrested him itself. He says he went to a Shrine for refuge, where he repented and heard a voice asking him to surrender to the Law, so he surrendered.

But there is no strict Islamic law in Pakistan, perhaps if relatives of the victim forgive him, court may reduce his sentence. But they are not willing to forgive. Neither the people want to see him alive, including me and many others (some for the hate for him and some for the enforcement of the relegious punishments).

well its interesting the raltives are not willing to forgive
I wouldnt either...
Well Allah (SWT) punishes us in dis world and the next for our crimes.

I just hope the lil girl....will be okay
daz my major concern

yah know sometimes
because of our culture
if something like dis happens
our women are just hushed because they dont'
want their family to be exposed
I think that horrible

LiL_DollY:

Smooth_daddy:

Badal, I disagree with you in the fact that his
wife's refusal led him to a crime of unparallel proportions. Now, i can take
it as the straw that broke camel's back. I think there are a lot of reasons
that led the man to this crime.

ahadeeth you mentioned are true and authentic. I must, however,
mention that these ahadeeth are to discourage a woman from refusing to
the call of husband. when she is able to (physically, emotionally and
mentally) but refuses only to tease the man, she is in contempt of
hadeeth. Of course, if she's ill, tired, or when she feels her husband is
abusive or is drunk or high on drugs, she may refuse to her husband.
Allah knows the best.

CM: you are taking it to the other side of the spectrum. Your argument of
hadeeth's validity is weak. you have not stated a[n] opinion of a scholar
who's versed in the original language and religion to refute badal's
claims. I think (I could be totally wrong) that you reject this hadeeth
becuase it is contrary to your set of believes but you don't want to say
that either.

If the wife refused why didnt he jsut pick her up and take her
and not give her a choice
it still doesnt give him the choice to hurt someone else

I couldn't agree more.
and I can't imagine a person so respectful to his wife's desire not to be approached but he couldn't careless for a child's screams and cries who shouted "NO" at the top of her lungs.

For even once I don't believe his stories. he's changed stories so many times. But I want to give him a chance to prove his innocence. That's a requirement for justice.

Smooth_daddy:

LiL_DollY:

Smooth_daddy:

Badal, I disagree with you in the fact that his
wife's refusal led him to a crime of unparallel proportions. Now, i can take
it as the straw that broke camel's back. I think there are a lot of reasons
that led the man to this crime.

ahadeeth you mentioned are true and authentic. I must, however,
mention that these ahadeeth are to discourage a woman from refusing to
the call of husband. when she is able to (physically, emotionally and
mentally) but refuses only to tease the man, she is in contempt of
hadeeth. Of course, if she's ill, tired, or when she feels her husband is
abusive or is drunk or high on drugs, she may refuse to her husband.
Allah knows the best.

CM: you are taking it to the other side of the spectrum. Your argument of
hadeeth's validity is weak. you have not stated a[n] opinion of a scholar
who's versed in the original language and religion to refute badal's
claims. I think (I could be totally wrong) that you reject this hadeeth
becuase it is contrary to your set of believes but you don't want to say
that either.

If the wife refused why didnt he jsut pick her up and take her
and not give her a choice
it still doesnt give him the choice to hurt someone else

I couldn't agree more.
and I can't imagine a person so respectful to his wife's desire not to be
approached but he couldn't careless for a child's screams and cries who
shouted "NO" at the top of her lungs.

For even once I don't believe his stories. he's changed stories so many
times. But I want to give him a chance to prove his innocence. That's a
requirement for justice.

yup
so upsetting
it really gets to me

Badal, my friend, none of us were there and we don't know why his wife refused to him. let's not assume or conclude on the basis of speculations.
if his wife refused to respond, that's between her and Allah. There is no punishment or kafarah for her. Besides, she is not a suspect or on trial here.

Because his wife didn't let him approach, he wouldn't have spared his own sister or ... if they happened to be in the house.

im gonna dissappear form here for a while
this topic makes me sick

its sickening. Sorry sis, but its the reality. We are dealing with it.

ya.he is right

You know how a killer tries to plea madness to get away the crime, this sadist also seems to be fabricating these petty excuses (such as the song on tv/his wife refusing) in a bid to get off lightly for raping/marring a child.

yah r probably right

it means a lot coming from you SD