N.T.G said:

so what the ppl in pakistan think abt sarabjeet? should he be realesed or punished?

There are at least two accusations against him:

1- Spying for india
2- Bomb blasts

As far as spying is concerned, it poses a danger for the benefits of the govt as well as the whole nation. Nobody until yet in the history of Pakistan has been forgiven for this crime.

Bomb blasts... we lost many precious lives bcos of them. Death penalty is given to any person even if he killed person, but there were many casaulties in these bomb blasts.

Forgiveness... what about the danger that we may face if he has some sensitive information and it got transfred to the india in case of his release? should we forget the disorder and casaulties caused by his bomb blasts? should we forget the pains of the families of the victims of these blasts?

N.T.G said:

he is 10th pass and by no means can become a raw member. there are too many proofs for his inocent.. thats wat we here and see.. we here do not get a clear picture of wat u and ur courts says abt him... wat proofs do they hav.. i mean i just want to know this coz i cant get the pakistani opinion on any media. ..

Proofs of innocence... if there were any proofs why not they were presented before the courts? As far as the proofs of his crimes are concerned, they are not shown to the public or posted in news papers or forums, but obviously it does not mean that they do not exist.

And it should be noted that he confessed all of his crimes openly before the court. So voices of his innocence that we hear from india sound ridiculous, isnt it?

N.T.G said:

and do u think this will help the peace process..

It should not disturb the peace process, as it is not the first time any indian is being punished for his crimes in pakistan. Also indian courts(or should i say every country's courts) do punish people found involed in these crimes, then why pakistan should not?

In my opinion, making this matter an issue itself is an attempt to disturb the peace process.

It is really terrible. May Allah be compassionate to them.

Smooth_daddy said:

No disagreement on that. I used "Zabiha" as a rhetorical expression and not as a technical term.
Secondly, pronouncing name of Allah is required for when we are slaughtering animals. How many of us have visited slaughter houses in pak or other muslim countries to varify slaughterer were pronouncing name of Allah on all animals. We are not even sure animals they slaughter were not wounded or preyed upon or sick... It is only by trust of a muslim on a muslim that we don't question zabiha of a believing person. Same condition applies to Ahlul kitab so long as the animal is permissible to us. This is out of mercy of Allah. Allah SWT guided us in Quran, ..."You will find Christians closest to you in faith...Polythiests and Jews as worst enemies..."

We were discussing the lawfulness of the slaughtered animals in Islam and Zabiha is an Islamic term should be used as it is. Saying like that 'It does not mean it has to be zabiha' could potentially betray the reader. Also your posts seem to imply that pronouncing the name of Allah is not neceesary, what is necessary in 'not pronouncing the name of other than Allah' (and DS is clearly of the same opinion) so i tried to clear it out that it is indeed necessary to pronounce the name of Allah before slaughtering.

And it is another issue that the words of a beleiver (that the animal is slaughetered according to Sharia) should be accepted. I will post a Hadith about it. Infact the question of rejecting the meat of the animals slaughtered by Muslims/People of the Book only arises when it is evident that it not Zabiha (any of the condition of being Zabiha is missing), as in case of most modern day machine slaughtered animals.

SALL said:

Badal said:

I couldn,t understand, what is the confusion? Dont stick to the words, they pronounce the name of Allah in their own way (maybe GOD), then where is the confusion?

RITE
yehi to confirm kar rahi thi yar

y r u so saruuuu



THANKS

where it sounds in my posts that i am saruu?

if it is true then definitely aap ka asar ho gaya hai

djeedja lotta said:

Cute_gal said:

Qadianism
Verses pertaining to Jihaad have been abrogated by the Wahy revealed to Ghulam Ahmad. He has in addition to the Qur'an, received Wahy, which is as important as the Qur'an.(Astugfirullah)...sarasar jhoot, no ahmadi-muslim believes this.

No ahmadi believes this? how come, when your prophet himself says this. read it (Roohani Khazaen, vol 16, p 28):




Qadianism
The Prophet had been sent twice to the world. The first time he appeared in Makkah, in the form of Muhammad and the second time in Qadian in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. (Astugfirullah)...itna barra aur sarasar jhoot, no ahmadi-muslim believes this. we even dont know ke konsi gupp maari hai.

Ye gupp mari hai, read this:

Ek Ghalati Ka Izala

The Removal of a Misunderstanding
by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s.), the Promised Messiah and Mahdi

http://www.alislam.org/books/misunderstandingremoved.html

I am the image of the KHATAM-AN-NABIYYIN and his alter-ego. Twenty years ago as published in the BRAHEEN-I-AHMADIYYA, God called me Muhammad and Ahmad and declared my advent to be the Holy Prophet's own coming. Thus my prophethood in no way clashes with the status of the Holy Prophet as KHATAM-AL-ANBIYA because the shadow is inseparable from the original and in an allegorical sense I am the same Muhammad.

Qadianism
The same Kalimah as the Muslims, except that Muhammad in the Kalimah refers to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.(Astugfirullah)... jhoot ki bhi koi hadd hoti hai yaar, har ahmadi-muslim ka kalima yehi hai, la ilaha illa allah, muhammad ur rasoolu allah. phir bhi jhoot par jhoot, propaganda

Look at this, how your prophet inserts himself in Kalimah (Kalimatul fasl page 158)




Qadianism
Obedience to Allah, obedience to English government.... just first part is the treust one. we are obedient to only Allah. nothing more. baaqi sabb gupps.

baki gupp kay baray main apnay prophet say khud sun lain (Roohani Khazaen, vol 15, p 155)




Qadianism
'The companions ate cheese from the Christians, although it was well known that it contained pigs, fat'. Faatima (Radhiallaahu Anhu) appeared to Ghulam Ahmad in a revealed state.(Astugfirullah)... ajeeb si stories hain, kuch. kissi ahmadi-muslim ko to pata bhi nahi inn jhoots ka. tafseeli jawab in urdu on the link at the end. itne barre barre jhoot yaar.

Well i think it isnt true

GHULAM AHMAD QADIANI
CLAIMS IN CHRONOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVES.... aur is chronology ki kya baat hai, siraf aap ko hi in baton ka ilm hai, aur kissi ko nahi. haha sarasar jhoot,

jo oopar dikhaya wo kafi hai ya is "sarasar jhoot" ko bhi with refference post karoon?

Bazigaar said:

is kiran and loota same person?

Dont be so suspicious...

kiran said:

salaam shareef sahab..i am kiran i am now allah ke fazal se ahmadi-muslim, i like it.

Dont be so quick. You may be betrayed from the right. You have not considered sunni muslims views, you are just overhelmed by the arguments of DS/DL. You may consult our scholars in this regard and they will satisfy you.

SALL said:

hey one thing
i ve heard k shikar kiye hue janwar ko marne se pehel churi pher lete hein k woh 'zibah' ho jae
otherwise woh murdar hota hai,, yani haram

This is not about hunted animals, this is about animals that are about to die because of severe injury, falling through a height etc, and this is mentioned in this Ayah:

"Forbidden to you are Maytah (carrion), flowing blood, the flesh of swine and that slaughtered for other than Allah as well as the (animal) expiring by strangulation, illness or pain, falling (from a height), by a wound (sustained through fighting) and by falling to a predator and (about to be consumed), excepting those (animals) upon which you effect Zakah (Shar'ee slaughter)." (Al-Maidah 5:3)

Djeedja Shareef said:

some muslims say ke zibah karte waqt name lena zaroori hai. but in the opinion of some others(e.g.Al-Azhar Kairo University) and in my opinion, too, u could pronounce Allahs name as soon as u get the meat in ur plate.

Read the Quranic verses that i mentioned above, Do you still have the opinion that pronouncing Allah's name is not necessary? If you have any Quranic verse/Hadith suporting your opinion, you can post here.

Djeedja Shareef said:

its the same, as u may eat the meat of animals which ur dogs catch for u. ab dogs kya Allah ka naam lete haiN? but unn ko sikhaya hota hai aur animals ko pakarrne ki niyyat yeh hoti hai ke insan uss gosht ko khaye. to jabb animals ka pakkra hua gosht allow hai to woh gosht, jo ke bana hi khaanay ke liye ho , woh kioN mana hona chahiye? doosra gosht woh mana hai, jiss par Allah ke siwa kissi ka naam liya gya ho, as i said over.

Hunting animals are means of slaughtering like knives, blades, etc. And just like we pronounce the name of Allah before running the knife, we pronounce the name of Allah before leaving the hunting animals for hunting. Here is a Hadith:

Adi ibn Hatim (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that he said: "O Messenger of Allah! At times, I let go of my hunting dog but I find with it another dog and I am unaware which of the two hunted the animal? The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Don’t eat (from the hunted animal), for you have pronounced the name of Allah on your dog and not on the other." (Sahih al-Bukhari, no 5486)

SALL said:

Z,
jews slaughter in same way
but wot do u mean by "name ALLAH"
i d say, name GOD,, coz all monotheists (people of book)beleive in same GOD



kar diya na kanfuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzze phir se

I couldn,t understand, what is the confusion? Dont stick to the words, they pronounce the name of Allah in their own way (maybe GOD), then where is the confusion?

For an animal to be considered Islamically lawful (halal), there are basically three conditions.

1) The name of Allah must be pronounced at the time of slaughtering;

2) Most of the four veins (including the Jugular vein, according to some) must be cut with a knife, blade or any tool that is sharp and has a cutting edge;

3) The slaughterer must be either a Muslim or from the People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab).


Here are some more verses from Quran regarding pronouncing the name of Allah:

1) "And consume not of that whereupon the name of Allah Ta'ala was omitted (at the time of slaughter). Indeed it is a transgression. Verily the Shayateen inspire their friends to cause division with you. If you obey them, you are indeed Mushriks (ascribing partners to Allah)." (Al-An'am 6:121)

2) "So take the name of Allah upon them (at the time of slaughter) while they stand in rows." (Al-Hajj 22:36). In reference to Camels which are slaughtered by Nahr (a swift stab of the neck which severs the four arteries) while standing.

3) "...and such animals upon which they mention not the name of Allah only to fabricate a lie against him." (Al-An'am 6:138)


All veins must be cut, otherwise all the blood may not come out of the body and this blood is haram:

"Forbidden to you are Maytah (carrion), flowing blood, the flesh of swine and that slaughtered for other than Allah as well as the (animal) expiring by strangulation, illness or pain, falling (from a height), by a wound (sustained through fighting) and by falling to a predator and (about to be consumed), excepting those (animals) upon which you effect Zakah (Shar'ee slaughter)." (Al-Maidah 5:3)


And third condition already known to evryone here, just a refference again:

"This day all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of the people of the Book is lawful for you..." (Al-Maidah 5:5)

Smooth_daddy said:

Allah SWT allowed us the food of the people of the book. It definitly has to be "Tayyab" that is clean and pure and have no trace of haram added to it. It does not mean it has to be zabiha. As DL et al mentioned earlier, when any animal or even other items of consumption are given in the name of one other than Allah are neither halal nor Tayyab.

I disagree. What it means to be Zabiha? Zabiha means the (meat of) animals slaughtered according to our relegious rites. And also, one of them is pronouncing the name of Allah (not that, not pronouncing the name of other than Allah).

"For every nation We have specified a rite (for slaughtering) so that they may pronounce the name of Allah Ta'ala upon (the slaughter of) the animals granted to them as sustenance." (Al-Hajj 22:34)

Djeedja Shareef said:

on the other hand, we dont know, which book was written first. he wrote more than 82 books.

Dont tell me that yaar. He started writing books from 1972 onwards (while he born on 1935, 37 years of age then) i can proove it from your own material, while he started studing Quran from a teacher at the age of 6/7.

What i tried to say in this topic becomes very obvious from your own books. Any person can understand it easily.

Djeedja Shareef said:

@badal

yaar ab rehne do. Anhazrat (saws) was ummi nabi, anparrh. but as he died, he could read and write somethings. he has learnt this from sahaba.

regardind Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (as), as everybody could see, he just learnt the basics of arabic and as u might have laernt quran by a teacher, too, who must not a mufasser or muhaddis or a master of religion, but just a normal teacher, who is teaching u the basics, not the deep meanings of what behind the words is. the same are these teachers, they were not mufassir or muhaddis or something else, unknown persons.

"hamary Nabi (SAW) nay aur Nabiyoon ki tarah zahiri ilm kisi ustad say nahi parha, magar Hazrat isa aur Hazrat Mosa maktaboon main bethay thay" that is visible in the first screenshot, isnt it?

Now he claimed that unhoon nay bhi kisi ustad say ilm hasil nahi kiya (whether in depth or not, as our Prophet), jo kay unhoon nay khud hi ghalat sabit kar diya.

"aur Hazrat Isa nay aik yahoodi ustad say Toraat parhi thi" that is also visible in screenshot. He claimed that he is not like that, but he did studied Quran from a teacher, as he himself wrote.

who is enforcing anyone to leave/change his relegion?

"religious freedom is given in western countries"?? dont tell me that.

Djeedja Shareef said:

but in this case, i think, this ayet is more precise than the discussion about halal and haram

[5:6] This day all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of the people of the Book is lawful for you. And your food is lawful for them. And lawful for you are chaste believing women and chaste women from among those who were given the Book before you, when you give them their dowries, contracting valid marriage and not committing fornication, nor taking secret paramours. And whoever rejects the faith, his work indeed is vain, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.

this ayat is [5:5], not [5:6]

We may eat with them and they with us. But this general proclamation of permission is preceded by a reiteration of the statement: 'All good things (tayyebaat) have been made lawful to you.' This indicates that if the People of the Book either do not observe those principles of cleanliness and purity which are considered obligatory by the Law or if their food includes prohibited items, then one should abstain from eating them.

If, for instance, they either slaughter an animal without pronouncing the name of God or if they slaughter it in the name of anyone else but God it is not lawful for us to eat that animal.

Likewise, if intoxicating drinks, the flesh of swine, and any other prohibited thing is found on their dining table we may not justify our partaking of such items on the ground that the persons concerned are People of the Book.

and btw, why you are taking it offensive to yourself? she is my friend, laikin naraz hai bas, it does not mean she is not my friend.

i think it takes a little brain to understand it.

kash_beauty said:

mayb not to u!
bt other ppl hve privacy!
n thy like to keep their privacy!

becareful next time!

privacy? konsi privacy rules break kiye hain main nay janab? i know what the rules are and what they are not.

she said this on open forum, and i am asking the same way.

i dont think so, its not offensive in any way

kash_beauty said:

u have an issue!
solve it in pm!

dnt create a scene on open forum!

its a family issue na, and thats a family forum as i am told

nice?

going

Djeedja Shareef said:

yeh nahi kaha gya kay halal janwaroN me se woh gosht na khao, jiss par Allah ka naam na liya gya ho. Allah ka naam aap le kar kha lo.

"Eat not (of meats) on which Allah's name has not been pronounced..." (Quran 6:121).

Bazigaar said:

wut's kosher?

Kosher means 'fit, or proper for use' according to Jewish laws, just as Halal means 'fit, or proper for use' according to Islamic laws.

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