LiL_DollY said:

I cant post any of my personal pics because the size is too big
what should I do???

if byte size is large then save as jpg. if pixel size is large then open it in win paint (or any other image editor), stretch it to a reasonable size (menubar => image => stretch/skew in paint) and save it. in photoshop, menubar => image => image size. there will be similar options in other image editors.

reducing pixel size will also reduce byte size.

I am again going to my home, dada jaan ki tabiat kharab ho gae hai, he is in nishtar, abhi abhi pata chala by phone, will meet after 2 or 3 days perhaps, dua kijiyega at least main un say mil tu sakoon. Allah Hafiz.

Smooth_daddy said:

Badal & CM you are not very far apart in your opinions. Its only the positions we are taking so very strongly that make us bitter and unforthcoming.

This is a very interesting topic. We must build on it in a positve way.

Sall, your point - well taken. People say that to justify their own actions or whatever wrong happens around them. Instead one should acknowledge and recognizie wrong and immoral practices. That's first step toward correction and moral uplifting.

SD justifying an action is another thing and being offensive on an undue criticism is another thing, you cant mix up them.

aur jahaan tak acknowledge aur recognize karnay ki baat hai tu can you say kay we do not acknowledge or recognize it? kon nahi janta hai? ye "first step" kitni bar uthana hoga ye batain? jis forum par bhi chalay jao yahi nazar ata hai "why is such and such sins are there, why ppl do and dont such and such things". koi is taraf nahi ata kay kaisay roka jaye inhain, koi inspirational article ya discusion nahi hoti is ko roknay kay liye, ulta ye comments sunnay ko miltay hain kay "they are normal ppl like us", "its their own business" etc, kia is tarah theek hoga sab? ye contribution hai humari sins roknay kay liye. is article ki jaga ye bhi hosakta tha kay koi aisay sins ko roknay kay liye koi article hota kuch ideas hotay, solutions suggest hotay, par nahi, wohi aik gardaan, YE hota hai yahaan, YE kyun hota hai, halaankay sab jantay hain kyun hota hai.

SALL said:

interesting views




i ve just one thing to add
dont compare pak with other contries,,, the best way to hide ur dark side is to say that it also happen in other contries,,,
y do we care so much abt the rest of the world as we never adopt their qualities,, instead when its question of a wrong practice we hide behind the sentence "bure log aur jaga bhi hote hein"
wot was the need for a separate MUSLIM STATE then ??
agar sab baki jaga jaisa hona hai to PAK ki kya zaroorat hai

MashaAllah, kia baat hai aap ki

where did i say that there is no homox in pakistan? or where did i say that "bure log tu har jaga hotay hain" so yahaan bhi honay chahiyen ya yahaan bhi honay say koi fark nahi parta? baat ko ghuma kar kahaan le gaeen, pehlay answer karain phir main explain karta hoon.

aur ye bhi batain kay ye MUSLIM STATE hoti kia hai aakhir jo baar baar MUSLIM STATE honay ka tanna diya jata hai? throw some light on it.

Chandramuki said:

*sighs* Quran isn't a dictionary, that's degrading it, but then you use terms in your own way so i'm not surprized you'd be using other things differently as well. you irritate me, there are two types of questions people ask, one, those who are trying to find an answer to increase their knowlegde, and two, those who ask just for sake of stirring trouble and getting at people in an argumentative and jahaal manner. Your questions are not only unclear but fall into catagory two so i don't have the patience to deal with you.

your wierd reasoning, patronising and arrogant manner are not going to conform my thinking and ideology, so you should just give it a rest.

If you really are in this to benifit others, follow SD's exapmle of mature, learned and modest approach. You've been constantly trying to put me down in hopes of "defeating" me, well firstly that's not going to happen, I've dealt with people like you before and you don't scare or intimidate me, and yes it has just been me, i don't know why, maybe because I'm a girl and you're sexist, you haven't once commented on anyone else, for a homophobic like you it's surprizing you didn't once comment on BadShah's remark on use all being a bit homosexual.

If you keep coming at people with a big headed and demeaning attitude which makes you look like you're trying to intimidate rather than explain, it's going to get you no where.

Aww... more names now; sexist, homophobic... dont worry it wont irritate me even a little

now you are picking up my words instead of views now yes Quran is like a dictionay for Muslims, it mentions and explains everything related to our lives. And we are ordered to consult Quran for guidance, not answers.com. if my thinking cant conform anyone's thinkig and ideology, then your thinking too cant deform anyone's thoughts and ideology after reading my comments which is based on Quran and not on my opinion.

who is freddy here? i thought its faradiya. is fradiya is now nikama?

i agree to you, ppl wish their bright childern should become doctors, engineerins, lawyers, scientists etc. but its not that "only those children go to madrassas who are either Lawaris or are good for nothing type". yes many of them are. i have seen many brilliant minds who are studying in madrassas. can we say the students who come from other countries to learn are lawaris? i agree if we cant get Molvis of quality from these madrassas, the we are responsible, bcos we are not willing to devote our brilliant minds to relegious studies.

Smooth_daddy said:

Why is it that everybody (most youngsters) in Pakistan thinks Molvis are Jahil and incapable of doing anything right?

Molvi means a scholar from whom we take guidance in the matters of relegion, i asume

Firstly, bcos most (not every) ppl today are unable to understand "who the molvis are".

* A person with a beard is not a molvi, he is merely observing a Sunnah (if he intended to do so)
* A Hafiz e Quran is not a molvi, he has just memorised the Quran, not learnt it.
* A person who leads us in prayer is not a molvi, he our Imaam only who should be pious man, not necessarily a scholar.

If someone tries to take guidance from those people, they misguide him, and he makes an opinion that "Molvis" are jahil, then he himself in on error.

Secondly, bcos of some self taught, neem Mullas who pretend to be Molvis, specially in rural area where literacy rate is much low, so people easily believe them. I dont mean ppl should be doctors or enginners to be considered literate.

And thirdly, the most common reason why we consider them "jahil", "backward" etc is that now if someone asks us to pray, we say he is a Molvi. If someone tell us to protect our gaze, to wear hijab etc we say he is a Molvi. We label anyone Molvi to be sarcastic, to express our displeasure towards them. Sometimes to express out hate towrds the Sunnah of the Prophet, if we see a man with beards comming, we say 'Lo! a Molvi is comming"

jjpr said:

Badal said:

JJ

So your opinion is that if Pakistan is an Islamic country there should no crimes, homox etc. "Islamic" <= note it. Do you think Christianity preaches homox, or Judaism preaches homox, or Hinduism preaches homox, or Budhism preaches homox? Dont all these relegion condemn homox? Then why is there "so much" homox, in America, UK, India, France, Austrlia? Why cant anyone question this then? Dont say me that these are secular countries, contries maybe be secular but more than 95% people have some relegion and are bound by some Laws. Obvioulsy all relegions and Laws (most if not all) condemn it, Islam is no exception. Nor is Pakistan. I may say this is a lack of understanding only to pinpoint Islam and pakistan.

Badal I dont know what your problem is, I have already stated that I am ASKING ABOUT PAKISTAN, I am not interested at this point in any other country why is it so hard for you to understand? I have also already stated that it would be hard to think that no sins can take place in the country.
And yes As Pakistan "IS SUPPOSSED TO BE" an Islamic coubtry then there should not be any sins. Please read this last sentence carefully.

It is "SUPPOSSED TO BE" that there should not be any sin because its an Islamic country. Similarly it is "SUPPOSSED TO BE" that there should ne no sins in other countries too because they also have some relegion and authorities who DO condemn sins and enforce laws to stop them from sinning. So why are there so much crimes in other countries?

I just wanted to say that pinpointing pak or Islam can not be justified, its a problem for all nations and all countries, for whole of the world. Not only pak is "SUPPOSSED TO BE" free from crimes, but the whole world is. And furthermore, the causes are the same whether its pak or any other country, the moral degradation, lusts and desires, we all know that.

Chandramuki said:

Badal said:

So eventually you agreed, God decides whats right and wrong, and its upto the people to abidy by or not, ....

I never disagreed to that, take any one of my posts and show me where I said that being gay wasn't a sin. btw there is a differance between a sin and a crime, do i need to the dictionary out again for you?

Quran is my dictionary, i have already shown its meanings from dictionary.

Its a sin and a crime too, if not, why Allah destroyed Qoum e Lut? just answer it. And why Allah ordered us to punish them?

I already raised many questions, but you wasnt able to answer a single, try again.

LiL_DollY said:

Badal said:

LiL_DollY said:

Badal said:

Dolly, it didnt gave
him any choice, that is what we are
condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for
his crime in Islam is surely Death.

HOnestly this is my opnion
he did what he did
and leave the rest to Allah (SWT)
thats were his real punishment will reside
and there is no punishment that like that of GODS
so just drop the topic about punishment.

No dolly, its not honesty with the victim to let the criminal at his own.
What we leave on Allah is the sin for which thers no punishment, like
giving up Prayer, Fasting, etc, its between man and Allah only. Also its
Allah's order to punish the criminals so that other may refrain from such
crimes. You know its a society not a Jungle (forest).

Yeah but open the quran and it says that ALLAH (SWT) is oft forgiving and
merciful. IF the guys crys his head off and repents then people should
give him a second chance.

(I mean I wouldnt want to at all):I agree he should be punished
but dont think about the worse way to punish him
Leave it Allah (SWT)

Yes, Allah recommends forgiving for sins which are related to humans only, for example murder and robbery. Murderer and robber can be forgiven BY the affectees. Raping and child molesting, homosexuality, etc are mainly related to Allah (and also the victims if they got hurted, injured, even dead etc). If such sin becomes open and evident even if the affectees dont complain, it is the responsibilty of the Islami Govt to punish the sinner, because its open now and can affect the society, and to apply Allah's Laws in the earth. If someone manages to hide his sin and then repents then Allah is most forgiving, and no one has any right to accuse him if he cant provide an evidence. That is what our relegion says.

But the sin of this person is evident, everyone knows it now. morover he didnt just break Allah's law, but also severly hurted the CHILD. The relatives of the child can forgive what he did to the child, but not what he did in relation to Allah. Yes he did repent, and that is why he surrendered, police didnt arrested him itself. He says he went to a Shrine for refuge, where he repented and heard a voice asking him to surrender to the Law, so he surrendered.

But there is no strict Islamic law in Pakistan, perhaps if relatives of the victim forgive him, court may reduce his sentence. But they are not willing to forgive. Neither the people want to see him alive, including me and many others (some for the hate for him and some for the enforcement of the relegious punishments).

LiL_DollY said:

Badal said:

Dolly, it didnt gave him any choice, that is what we are
condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for
his crime in Islam is surely Death.

HOnestly this is my opnion
he did what he did
and leave the rest to Allah (SWT)
thats were his real punishment will reside
and there is no punishment that like that of GODS
so just drop the topic about punishment.

No dolly, its not honesty with the victim to let the criminal at his own. What we leave on Allah is the sin for which thers no punishment, like giving up Prayer, Fasting, etc, its between man and Allah only. Also its Allah's order to punish the criminals so that other may refrain from such crimes. You know its a society not a Jungle (forest).

Chandramuki said:

Right on SD you're the voice of reason, I learn alot from you ofcourse God decides what's right and wrong, but it is up to the people to abide by it. 'criminals' just sounds like a wrong way to describe gays, i think 'sinners' is more appropriate and precise.

am i adultrophobic? hmm, well we can all aford one phobia!

So eventually you agreed, God decides whats right and wrong, and its upto the people to abidy by or not, and you are not going to abide by it or accept it. You would have said this plainly earlier, you wasted our time and words.

No, gays are also criminals because there is a punishment for them, as every other criminal.

Dolly, it didnt gave him any choice, that is what we are condemning, and that is why he should be punished. The punishment for his crime in Islam is surely Death.

Smooth_daddy said:

Badal, I disagree with you in the fact that his wife's refusal led him to a crime of unparallel proportions. Now, i can take it as the straw that broke camel's back. I think there are a lot of reasons that led the man to this crime.

ahadeeth you mentioned are true and authentic. I must, however, mention that these ahadeeth are to discourage a woman from refusing to the call of husband. when she is able to (physically, emotionally and mentally) but refuses only to tease the man, she is in contempt of hadeeth. Of course, if she's ill, tired, or when she feels her husband is abusive or is drunk or high on drugs, she may refuse to her husband. Allah knows the best.

I didnt say this is the ONLY reason, this is ONE of the reasons, others were songs and TV which was running at that time, and there may be other ones. so no offense.

You explained ahadith well, but can you proove that she was ill, or the man was drunk or abusive? No, it wasnt the case. She was (and is) in good health, and everyone knows he was a pious man, not a drunk. And perhaps you forgot, the Prophet said "she must go to him even if she is occupied with the oven", so work is of no importance, obviously she could do it latter. Its our Prophets words, cant be changed or allowed to be misinterpretted.

Perhaps you should read the interview of the man and women, he told what leaded him to such a grave sin. Its available on geo.

Chandramuki said:

Like I said before, I'm on a different wavelength to you, you don't understand me because you're not in my league. You're backward, homophobic, racist and sexist chauvinist - none of things which I or most of the members here are. Now let others comment on it? When did I stop anyone from commenting on this thread? You are the one with obssessed with posting back on anything I say.

"backward, homophobic, racist and sexist chauvinist", I was expecting the same from you, dont worry personal attacks never bother me. Its my relegion for which i bother.

Yes you are at diffrent wavelenght because I respect and understand my relegion contrasting you.

Chandramuki said:

No no SD, adultry is a crime and affects the lives the spouse and his family. Homosexuality can also affect the lives of people involved, but I meant it without any other factors attached, e.g, a single gay with anotehr single gay, no cheating on eachother. Under that condition, it's no one's buisness.

What about the raper who rapes someone without hurting her? How could it affect her life afterwards if not a third persons knows this?

Who decided adultery is a crime? Allah has declared adultery and homosexuality crimes and sins. Laws of morality are decided by Allah not by huumans, who are we to declare that homox is not a crime and sin whether it affect anyone's life or not, when Allah has declared it a crime and sin?

Iqra? You better read that Quranic verses again i mentioned before. The same "Iqra" tells us its a sin and how these sinners should be treated. You may wish to remove those and many other verses that condemn homos. Try your best, you cant do it.

JJ

So your opinion is that if Pakistan is an Islamic country there should no crimes, homox etc. "Islamic" <= note it. Do you think Christianity preaches homox, or Judaism preaches homox, or Hinduism preaches homox, or Budhism preaches homox? Dont all these relegion condemn homox? Then why is there "so much" homox, in America, UK, India, France, Austrlia? Why cant anyone question this then? Dont say me that these are secular countries, contries maybe be secular but more than 95% people have some relegion and are bound by some Laws. Obvioulsy all relegions and Laws (most if not all) condemn it, Islam is no exception. Nor is Pakistan. I may say this is a lack of understanding only to pinpoint Islam and pakistan.

All depends on Niyyah. If you using wasalaam in short for walaikum assalam, then its not right. If you are using it as a complete sentence (it is complete indeed) then its ok. But obviously its not Sunnah, so you wont get reward of Sunnah for both.

Chandramuki said:

Badal said:

the authenticity of these hadiths in unquestionable, they are in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim books of Ahadith and are "Sahih". anyone suspecting their authenticity would be commiting suicide.

Every translation of any religious is flawed. That is a fact not an opinion. A religious text only stays prestine as long as it is in its original language.

Badal said:

And i didnt justified. i poitend out the cause only, as i explained ealier. if you cant understand, if your little brain, i can help much.

"the man is a sadist, his wife and the girl are victims." man is sadist, the girl is the victim and wife wasnt a victim, what he did to her? instead she became a cause with other causes of this evil, the heinous crime of that man.

Defeat? To you? Never.

You need to get an English dictionary because you obviously don't understand what the words, Justify, Defeat, Sex, Rape, mean. I'm not going to fall to your level and resort to name calling, so here I'm taking the liberty of giving you the meaning of those words, taken from dictionary.com:


rape (n)

1The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.


tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes
To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.
To seize and carry off by force.
To plunder or pillage.


i.e. if it isn't forced, it's not rape but sex. but you don't know what sex means either, here:

Sex means

Next one - justify

v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
v. tr.
1To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2To declare free of blame; absolve.
3To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.

4Law.
To demonstrate sufficient legal reason for (an action taken).
To prove to be qualified as a bondsman.

Your explanation is totally flawed, you didnt even get me. What i said earlier is sufficinet, and needs no more explanation from me. Every one with a little sense can understand it well, i repeat. Now let others comment on it too.

ab pata chala ye GEO waloon nay urai hai

jjpr said:

Well well, first of all can I ask what incident you are referring to, because I started this thread with NO SPECIFIC incident in mind, I was asking a general question.
Secondly if you check other threads in the section you will notice that I have aslo started one, PAKistan, asking why there is so much "murders and robbery" as you say in Pakistan.
Thirdly I am not saying that these people should be discriminated against but they should be educated and where required be helped.
Homosexuality is wrong in Islam.

I find some of your comments confusing, are you condoning or condemning homox?

jjpr said:

Badal said:

Amazing, Allah didnt feel any mercy for these "disable" homos, and destroyed the whole of the nation of Prophet Lut! Allah must be cruel and devoid of any mercy for his own creatures (just like us?) to do that to them. Really, is He? Can you dare saying that while still being a Muslim? Answer me now, both of you (specially ashkhan you are proud of your parents being very knowledgeable, show me your own knowledge).

Badal are you saying this about Allah? Do you believe he was?

Yes, I appologise, I didnt see the other topic, but it was a side comment and mostly ppl do the same. But my question is the same, does being PAKistan or for Islam mean there cant be any crime? And how much homox is there? more than India? America? France? Germany? Autralia?

And obviously i am condemning it. I am surprised why you couldn see it..

{Badal are you saying this about Allah?} Oh God! look at the comments closely. I am asking this to these ppl who are teaching us the lesson of mercy for the homos. Allah didnt feel any any mercy for them, instead destroyed the whole nation for this crime, then why should we? He asked us to punish them not to love them, they deserve no mercy like rapers, child molesters, robbers, murderers ect dont deserve. If they do deserve then Allah must be cruel because he didnt feel any mercy for them. I am asking from them whether they think so that Allah is cruel? Obviosly I cant even think so.

nujoom has nothing to do with it, with the knowledge of ghaib.

and other one seems a rumour only, it is common many rumours spread in such situations.

Now you accepted your defeat

the authenticity of these hadiths in unquestionable, they are in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim books of Ahadith and are "Sahih". anyone suspecting their authenticity would be commiting suicide.

And i didnt justified. i poitend out the cause only, as i explained ealier. if you cant understand, if your little brain, i can help much.

"the man is a sadist, his wife and the girl are victims." man is sadist, the girl is the victim and wife wasnt a victim, what he did to her? instead she became a cause with other causes of this evil, the heinous crime of that man.

Chandramuki said:

oh please - there is a major differance between a rapist or criminal and a homosexual, why are you comparing them? in essence criminals hurt people and someone having sex in the privacy of their bedroom is not making anyone a victim or looting anyone.

I am going to suspect you mental health now. where is the differene between a raper and a homo? who said raping always hurts? the same act but with same sex, where is the difference?

Denying the truth wont falsify the truth.

Nabi and Rasul are sometimes used interchangeably in Quran for the same (litteral) meaning of "a person who is sent from Allah" and "a person who conveys His message (to us)". Allah has also used "Rasul" for his angels. And Nabi and Rasul are also used side by side in Quran which implies they meant diffrently there.

Shariah explains Rasul as the one who has been sent from Allah with a new Shariah or Book, and Nabi is one who does not come with a Shariah or Book, instead he follows and preahes the message of the previous "Rasul" of the nation towards whom he was sent. As Allah said towards each nation He sent a Rasul. Nabi follows and teaches the Shariah of the Rasul of his nation. He is also appointed by Allah of course.

In short, Rasul is a law bearer "Nabi".

"main nay suna hai kay her rasool nabi ho sakta hai lakin her nabi rasool nahin", QV. ho sakta nahi bulkay hota hai. example isi tarah kay QV is a girl but every girl is not QV. QV is a "girl" who has given special name. Similarly Rasul is a "Nabi" who has been given Shariah. So every Rasul is Nabi, but every Nabi is not Rasul because every Nabi doesnt come with a Book/Shariah.

And whether a Nabi has complete Book like 4 Prophets or other scriptures, aur any source of revealation of Shariah, he is a Rasul.

"Never did We send an apostle [rasul] or a prophet [nabi] before thee but when he framed a desire Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom" (22:52)

Smooth_daddy said:

Badal, I respect your opinion and would suggest reconsideration. Quran was not revealed for virtues and blessings. Its like a prescription, no matter how much you recite, it will not benefit unless you make proper use of it. Quran is a manual of human life. Virtues of its recitation and its blessings were not told to the companions until the last when they had adopted it in their lives.

SD you always misunderstood me

I didnt say Quran was revealed for vitues only, not i am seeing any of my statement which may imply this. Instead look at what i said at the end of my post.

Badal said:

Ofcourse, we should learn Quran and not just recite it, specially in this blessed month of Ramazan. Perhaps thats what you mean, otherwise your post is quite ambiguous.

I pointed out that you would mean learning Quran in your post, and i agreed to this. The primary concern of a Muslim should be understanding Quran not just recite it. I just said it has virtues and blessing even for reciting only, and you too cant deny it.

What would you say about people who cant understand arabic, the 90% of the ppl of the world? And about those 98% of the ppl of Pakistan? If the Quran wasnt revealed for blessings and virtues only, would it mean they should stop reciting it? Of course no! I know translations are avaible, but translations are not Quran, isnt it? Then how could it be related to Taraveeh prayer? There are other obligatoy prayers, why not them?

And there are ppl who even cant read it, lest understand it. It is the responsibilty of the learned ppl to covey the message of Quran to them. Instead we start criticizing their reading and listening to Quran without understanding it.

I would say to both of you, that i or anyone else didnt deny that they "humans", they are, but like other criminals and sinners. and punishment is for humans, is it for animals? huh!

=>{I have had gay and tranvis teachers, their sexuality never affected the way they teached (or acted) or made them any different from any other teacher} - I know these homos are just like normal people like other humans, like rappers, like robbers, like molesters, and everyone else.How could it justifies you views of "permitting them the homox" while you can permit a rapper, a molester, a robber etc to do their henous crimes?

We have sympathay for everyone as a human being, including these sinners. But Allah orders us that this sympathy should hinder in applying Allah's order on them and punish them (all sinners). "You genuinely don't care what anyone is", but we do care for it because its Allah's command. At least a true Muslim do care.

I recommend both of you toget some knowledge of relegion before indulging in such matters, or it may lead to the corruption of your faith.

Where i stated that it justifies this sin? its your corrupt thinking which leads you conclude this. I condemned the man, and pointed out the wife's fault. If I say someone commited robbery because he was poor and in need of money, it wont mean that i am justifying his act, but rather descrbing what leads him to that crime so that we may make precautions to stop this. Knowing the cause of the evil is the first step towards its elimination.

And yes, its the right of the husband over his wife, and our Holy Prophet stated it clearly, and warning those women who deny this right. Every Muslim with only a "little sense" can well understand this from these hadiths. I misinterpretted them? can you explain them then?

It is indeed a very heinous crime, and how much we condemn it, it wont suffice. Every one expressed his/her feelings and my feelings are the same.

But why are we afraid of describing the other aspect of this crime, the reason which leaded that man to such a big crime? His wife refused him to fulfil his desire with her which was his right, and this leaded him to a much bigger crime and sin. Isnt it? That was why our Prophet ordered women not to refuse their husbands. Now we have seen the result of refusing to husband (of a halal thing) which leaded him to a haram.


Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"When a man calls his wife to his bed, and she does not respond and he (the husband) spends the night angry with her, the angels curse her until morning". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

"By Him in Whose Hand is my life, when a man calls his wife to his bed, and she does not respond, the One Who is above the heaven becomes displeased with her until he (her husband) becomes pleased with her". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

"When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire, she must go to him even if she is occupied with the oven". [At-Tirmidhi and An-Nasa'i].


Why it was so urged not to refuse to husband, could be easily understood by this incident. The wife of this man should also feel sorry for this, as she neglected his husband's right, and incurred the displeasure of Allah, his husband, and the curse of the angels.

jjpr said:

Why is there so much homosexuality in Pakistan?

In pak? As many others pointed out, I will also ask how homox can be connected to "pak"? Being created for Islam does not mean it should necesarily be free from crimes, is it? It only means such crimes wont be allowed here, and they will be punished, and not that there will be no crime.

So much? Can you expalain how much? You listened to an incident and immediately started questioning why is there "so much" homox in pak, huh!! And by the way, there is also much robbery, murders etc, but no one has time to think about it. What seems "fanciful" we immediately starting questioning about it, its ridiculous.

ashkhan said:

na i dnt agree. humans have disabilities and not being able to feel attraction towrds the opp gender, is a disability.

i dontt think anyone would want to b a homo, jus they have been made with feelings that way. i know who wish they were like everyone else, but cant help it, even females. i.e. look at mental disorders they are ppl with feelings made a certain way.

not only in pakistan, there r gays in western contries, more than u can imagine, and u cant even telll if they r.

i think we as humans r very wrong in not accepting ppl with this diability, they r humans, and they shouldnt b treated any different.

even the quran says there r ppl with dis abilities, who we as reg ppl should accept and not discriminate aginst.

ashkhan said:

homo dont accept being homo cus they rnt criminal so have no other choice to accept what they are. sd brova i totally disagrre with u, what is a disability?

a disability is when a human being is unable to make reg choices and live a reg life. and in this case they r disabled cos they r unable to live a reg life and make reg choices cos they have been made to function that way. it is proven by psycologists that it is infact a disability of a much smaller level.

phycos etc.. are diabled and perform criminal activitiess,that is why they r wrong.

yes islam condems homo beings, but that is not to say that ppl like that dont exist. and if they do they why cant we accept them. cos islam also says accept every human being they r just like you. u dont need to encourage it or live with ppl like that or ebven like them , but accept that they r human beings.

sd brova sometimes u r rite, but at times u come acroos as being too extreme, not i i agree with it or have to live with it but thats who u r and we all accept u for it.

dont eve doubt my knowledge of islam, cos my parents are very knowledgable. in my city they r known for teir islamic knowledge and references, while being moderate muslims. my mum says that too.

Chandramuki said:

ashkhan said:

i think we as humans r very wrong in not accepting ppl with this diability, they r humans, and they shouldnt b treated any different....

You're right, gays shouldn't be treated any differently, after all at the end of the day what someone's sexual preferance is, is no one's buisness and it's shallow to judge someone based on their sexuality. I disagree with you one point though, it's not a disability, it's persuing desires which are haram.

Oh GOD! May Allah save us from these devilish beliefs. I ignored you several times but i think both of you need some treatment. Is it a disablity? "it is proven by psycologists"? where are these "psycologists"? Is there any psycologists greater than Allah? Bring him here. These "psycologists" must be homos themselves i think. And you are reminding us of Quran {even the quran says there r ppl with dis abilities, who we as reg ppl should accept and not discriminate aginst}. Start searching from the first Ayah and show me a single Ayyah which say they are dsiable and should be treatet nicely. Let me break your bubble of "humanity" myself, open up Quran, surah Aaraf and see:

7:80 We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?

7:81 "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."

7:82 And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"

7:83 But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind.

7:84 And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!


Amazing, Allah didnt feel any mercy for these "disable" homos, and destroyed the whole of the nation of Prophet Lut! Allah must be cruel and devoid of any mercy for his own creatures (just like us?) to do that to them. Really, is He? Can you dare saying that while still being a Muslim? Answer me now, both of you (specially ashkhan you are proud of your parents being very knowledgeable, show me your own knowledge).


And chandramuki, {after all at the end of the day what someone's sexual preferance is, is no one's buisness} it wont be your business perhaps, because its a Muslims's business. If you are a Muslims then let me show what is your business:

"Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors." Al-Imran [3:110]

And there hunderds of Ayaat ordering us to stop evil and punish the criminal to make the Islamic society clean of these evils. Have any any verse in support of your (evil) beliefs? Dont hesitate, show me, maybe it increases my knowledge.