kuch samajh bhi to aaye ke konsi wajah aap daryaaft farma rahi haiN. give ur question a shape of words, please.

found today a homepage with a lot of such nice information. i just wanted to share. which one is real islam?

SALL said:

yeh baat to hai,,,
i read k aik larka aur aik larki paida hote the (twins)
aur sirf twins ki apas mei shadi nahi ho sakti thi
that was probably the reason of first murder,, coz habel wanted to marry his (twin) sister, who was suppose to b his brothers' wife
kuch aisa si baat,,,

no ref,,, i read it somewhere aur bazahir sab yehi mante hein,,,
no idea yeh baat kahan tak sach hai

ufffffffffffffffff ab kehne ko kya reh jata hai.

[5:28] And relate to them with truth the story of the two sons of Adam, when they each offered an offering, and it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. The latter said, 'I will surely kill thee.' The former replied, 'Allah accepts only from the righteous;
5:28 - 5:32

kahiN kissi aurat ka koi zikar nahi hai. ufff yaar i always heard that orthodoxic muslims are inventin strange meanings of quran and a lot of stories. but i never heard them. and u read them all. harr kissam ki strange storie ki reference aap hi deti haiN. hahahha mazah aagya, ajeeb si story sun kar. well i didnt say ke aap ne invent ki hai ya aap believe karti hogi, but i am really amused about them. what kind of books u read. may be coz i always pray
"Rabbi allamtani, ma huwa khairun indika" My Lord, teach me, what u think is better (for me)." amin

@SD

thanks for the other perspective. does it clash to other translation? and its true ke arabic words ke buhat se matlab urdu me nahi liye jasakte, like "khatam", too.

@sall

acha acha zyada hypothetic na baneN aap. hameN sabb pata hai.

well i see there just one line of sher. hahaha may be u mean the first part of that line. issi liye to main ne hehe kiya hai ke mujhe pata tha ke samajh nahi aayegi.

it means taqreeba, takeH log sharab aur shehad ke liye zyada koshish na kareN.

@SD
i dunno pata nahi aap ka paala parra ho na ho, but its my experience ke especially india ke muamle me most of pakistanis, which i met, hamesha unn ka mazaq hi urrate rehte haiN.

i am not defending western society at all. i am just showing there good traditions, which must be ours. they are our lost attitudes. and for me it doesnt count ke religious freedoom and other good attitudes Allah ke liye dee jaarahi hai ya or for their own self-satisfaction. important is that there is religious freedom.

so i will inshallah get good things from my traditions and from others, too.

hmm to understand this matter of shikaar, u should be once with a shikari, too. there are more situations where the animals die before shikari reaches them. and that they are murdaar then, its new to me.

fish ko halal karna zaroori nahi hota, means ke haraam khai jaasakti hai? heheh the problem is
muslim tareeq ka zabeeha is halal,
but not all of halal is zabeeha.
zabeeha doesnt mean halal. zabeeha is a practice.

fact is an exception although it ends. yani problem fish ke muamlay me yeh hoti ke murdaar hoti na keh zabah na hoti. i think.

@sall

ab dekha thread. waisay bhi idher kuch likha tha, woh delete kar diya gya. rule ke khilaaf tha na.
khair,
yeh jo cro magnons the. hmmm yeh ajeeb se insan the. well insan ki ab definition aap kya kareNgi? aqal aur shaoor me difference kareN pehle. yeh cro-magnons bhi france ke the, aap bhi wahaN ki hi haiN. goya aap behter jaanti hongi, unnko shaoor tha ya nahi. hehhe

well without joking. i think, they were human beings. human beings are according to my interpretation of all the matters developed in a way of directed evolution. and cro magnons were developed in a way that they could overcome the "neanderthalers"(the germans, hmm i am from germany, so u defeated and deleted us in the past).

so u can imagine or not imagine, may be there wes a prophet, who brought them a law. they accepted him, neanderthalers didnt. so with the help of Allah, cro magnons won. but this time we accepted, u didnt. so u will be defeated. its just a light version of good story. kaisi?

@irsa

aap buhat achi baateN karti haiN. kaisay kar leti haiN?

@heart hacker

yaar maiN ne parrh liya. balkeh do chaar ayat pehle aur do chaar baad me bhi parrh li. kuch utarna ka zikar nahi mila. yaar tum idher quote kar do na.

magar raaje wali baat to aap ne batayi hi nahi. gidh ki shtori suna dee hai, bass.

woh assal me yeh hota hai ke uss me aik rajah bhi hota hai, magar kala sa hota hai, iss liye main ne aagay nahi parrha.

SALL said:

kehte hein k Allah miyan k sache ashikon ko agar kayamat k din kaha jae k Allah miyan ki khushi issi mei hai k aap log dozakh mei jao to woh hansi khushi dozakh ko kubool kar lein ge

baqaul-e-ghalib
ta'at me taa rahe na meh-o-angabeeN ki laag (hehe)dauzakh me daal do koi lekar bahisht ko


hmmm baaqi baatoN se mutaffiq huN. citated wali se nahi, dil ko nahi lagti. ab dekho na, qayamat wale din agar Allah aik ashik ke saath yeh salook kare to yeh to Allah ki shaan ke hi khilaaf hai. this is a hypothetic situation, but created very bad. Allah benayaz hai, USS ki zaat ko bhala kya khushi ke koi dauzakh me jale, balke yeh to USS ki sifaat ke hi khilaaf hai. waisay bhi iss situation se yeh impression milta hai ke goya ashik achi tabiyyat wala banda hai aur Allah nauzubillah dukh dene me khushi mehsoos karta hai. nauuzubillah. ashik ki haissiyat hi kya hai bhala. wadda aaya.

yeh jo bhi kehta hai ghalat kehta hai and i know ke aap nahi kehti, aap ne suna hai. topic aur bhi kahiN se kahIn chala gya. chalo kuch aur sahi.

SALL said:

dunya

konsi dunya

well the first three ka mujhe pata hai, aap fifth wali ka bata deN, bhalai hogi.

here are my true values. taken from quran, found almostly in western countries in this era.

religious freedom.
[31:24] And as for him who disbelieves, let not his disbelief grieve thee. Unto US is their return and We shall tell them that which they did. Surely, Allah knows full well what is in the breasts.    
[2:257] There is no compulsion in religion. Surely, the right way has become distinct from error; so whosoever refuses to be led by those who transgress, and believes in Allah, has surely grasped a strong handle which knows no breaking. And Allah is All-Hearing. All-Knowing.

especially towards india
[49:12] O ye who believe! let not one people deride another people, haply they may be better than they, nor let one group of women deride other women, haply they may be better than they. And do not defame your people nor call one another by nick-names. It is an evil thing to be called by bad name after having believed; and those who repent not, such are the wrongdoers.

justice for everybody, muslim or not muslim
[4:59] Verily, Allah commands you to give over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely, excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you. Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.

probably the first law revealed to adam (as) for his nation. Roti, kappra and makaan
[20:119] 'It is decreed for thee that thou shalt not hunger therein nor shalt thou be naked;
[20:120] 'And that thou shalt not thirst therein, nor shall thou be exposed to the sun.'

asylem, i let this thing without comment.
9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters seeks protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge. [

and aur bhi buhat se hain

@SD
well i will, inshallah. but i am >1000km away from my books now a days. i have a better reference for u now.

[55:30] Of Him do beg all that are in the heavens and the earth. Everyday He reveals himself in a different state.

and i am witness of todays shan.

yaar udher hi kharre kharre kar lo na tayammum. ab namaz to nahi na chorr sakte. saath wale to namaz parrh rahe hain, nahi dekhte. but if u feel urself very unconfortable, then wait, till they finish their namaz, make then ur wuzu properly and pray then alone. sawab bass kamm milega.



Please read this note about my opinion

SALL said:

....sahi hone pe unhein sharmindagi hui k aik itni naik aur khidmat guzar bivi k bare mei itni bari baat keh di,, tab unhein hukum aaya k kasam poori karne liye he took a jharoo (jiss mei 100 teeliyan thi) and slightly hit his wife

mera khyal we r talking abt the same wakeya.....

hmmm i doesnt approach my mind. dil ko nahi lagti yeh baat. look, kahan woh log, ke islam se pehle ajeebo ghareeb harkaat karte the and kahaN woh log jo islam ko maan kar wali-ullah bann gaye. raatoN ko jaag jaag kar rone wale, jinn ke dil Allah aur Allah ke rasool se bharee hue the. jo Rasool ke aage bhi larre aur peeche bhi larre, daayeN bhi larre aur baayeN bhi larre. jinhoN ne insani Akhlaq (manners) ko itna develope kiya, aur kaha yeh thaki hui, mad and third class riwayat. i dont believe it. history tells me something else. inn logoN ne woh missaal qaayem ki jo arabs ke liye namumkin si lagti thi.

now critics on this riwayet.
pehli baat, kon tha woh banda, jiss ne yeh harkat ki?
doosri baat. Anhazrat (saws) ki solid riwayet maujood hai, solid and sahi hadees maujood hai, siha-sittah me, where its narrated by hazrat Aisha(as), that Hazrat Mohammad (saws) never hesitated to change his decisions and Qasams, if he found some better possibilities or better ideas. woh qassam torrne ke "kuffara"(i dont know the word in english for this word, SD, please help) de dete the.

jabb Anhazrat (saws) yeh karte the to yeh konsa sahabi aagya jiss ki zyada itaat ki jaaye, if HE were a sahabi?? agar kissi aur ummat ka nabi tha, then why, we should do? agar koi naik banda tha, to naiki to iss riwayet se hi zahir ho rahi hai unn ki.

yaar dont u think ke hamare buzurgs itni kidish nahi the. well i think, they were great and not kidish like this ke jahorrroo ke teele pakar kar qassam poori kar rahe haiN. sorr to say but if some of my now living buzurgs will do something like this, jharooo like qassam poori, then i will say him too, ke dimagh satthyaa gya hai.

our prophet Mohammad (saws) never beated his wives. he loved them, he joked with them like friends, he played with them, he treated them like they are queens. balke ummul mo'mineen bartan torrti thiN, and he smiled. he smiled. mashallah. this is islam.

yeh ajeeb si riwayetoN ne hi islam ko joke banaya hua hai. siraf aik kahani hai, jo chotte bachoN ko shayed achi ya dirauni lage, magar kissi normal insan ko aproach hi nahi karti.



Please read this note about my opinion

@badal

itni beheass me jaanay ki zaroorat hi nahi, bhai jaan. aap mujhe kuch jawab de deN, main aap ko kuch jawab de deta huN. otherwise aap apni karte raheN main apni karta rehta huN. jiss type ke sawal aap kar rahe haiN, yeh to jaari raheN ge, i am sure, aap ne khud to koi kitaab nahi parrhi Mirza ghulam ahmad(as) ki. bass kahiN say aitrazat ka bundle utha laaye. so yeh to khatam nahi hone. inn ka jawab aap official website par talash kijiye.

pehle yeh bataye, waisay aap Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) ki baat tasleem nahi karte, yeh ussatizah wali kioN tassleem kar li? phir agar tassleem ki bhi to baaqi kioN nahi tassleem karte?
phir yeh ke yeh sabit karna to aap par hai abhi lazim ke konse ustad se taleem hassil ki unhoN ne?
ab chotte scholloN me parrhanay wale ko bhi ustad hi kehte hain magar woh koi mana hua ustad thorra hi hota hai. ab aap idher bhi aik lafz "ustad" ko pakarr ke baith jaayen to kuch kiya nahi jasakta, bhai jaan.

"quran aur hadees me kissi ustad ka shagird nahi hoga" means for me, kissi maane hue zamanay ke ustad ka shagird nahi hoga.

ab maulvi fazal ilahi, sahib ko koi nahi janta ke unn ka quran me kitna ilm hai, haaN yeh hoga ke unn se quran parrhna seekha hoga, like every urdu-bacha seekhta hai. aap ne bhi seekha hai, main ne bhi ustani sahiba se seekha hai, magar siraf arbi parrhni, waisay unn se agar kissi lafz ka matlab bhi poochuN to unheN nahi aata hoga. this is light difference. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) ke zamanay me maane hue ustad maujood the, jinn sabb ne aap ki kitaab "baraheen-e-ahmadiyya" ki itni tareefeN ki, bad me magar jabb dawa kiya Masih maud hone ka to wuhi dushman bann gaye. to janab, sabit to abhi aap ne karna hai ke kissi ustad ke shagird the.

aur ab hamare sawalat ka bhi jawab de deN zara. jo pehle bhi kiye aur ab bhi kar dete haiN.

hazrat Isa(as) faut ho gaye ya nahi?
koi ghair-sharii prophet ummat me asakta hai ya nahi?

pehle basics decide kar lijiye, aap ko sabb kuch samajh aajayegi. jabb naali meN phanssa hua pathar ni nikala jaaye uss waqat takk paani aage behta nahi hai, aik hi jaga par kharra reh jata hai. so pathar hatayiye.

yaar i thik tayammum is, if u dont have water, then u could just symbolic use mitti or any other saaf object. u touch this object and then u touch ur bazu, feet, face and so on line in wuzu.

if somebody is in second saff, then he should use the saff as a clean object.



Please read this note about my opinion

@badal

actually u are right. but kosher means for me that they pronounced the name of GOD on it, otherwise its not kosher for them, too.
some autors dont count bismillah as an ayet, thats why u think, it was 5:5. i count bismillah as an ayet of every soorat, thats why for me it was 5:6.

@sall

tell me one thing. jabb koi sidhaya hua janwar kissi parinday ya khargosh ka shikar karta hai to how many times uss shikaar kiye hue janwar ko zibah kiya jata hai? woh chotte chotte pidde pidde se janwar to dog ke muNh me hi marr jate haiN mostly.
and were u ever been in a big factory for meat? i think u should be there. agar har janwar ko kuch konservative opinions ke tehet zibah kiya jaaye to i dont think ke woh factory ko business me koi faeda hoga. well waisay abhi aap samjheN ya na samjheN, jabb main sihah-sittah kay hawalay de dunga to i hope ke phir samajh aajayegi. insahallah


Please read this note about my opinion

SALL said:

iss liye k muslim countries shayad islam pe nahi chalte

heheheh hehhee

ab maiN iss par kuch kahunga to aap kaheNgi ke "DL aap bhi na bass aik taraf ghoom jaate haiN."

@sall

according to a hadees qudsi, i dont have the real hawala here now, Allah is every day in a new shan.

and if we think ke u are reading a book about sufism, we could say, that the hadees which u refer, is right.

a lover will be bored if the beloved person is not changing himself. on the other hand, with the changing of beloved person, a lover must change himself, too. it is an evolution of mind, taqwa(love), ilm and experience and a lot of other things, too.

issi context ki ayet hai ke "naiki me aik doosre se barrho" and a lot of others, too.

@badal

yaar ab rehne do. Anhazrat (saws) was ummi nabi, anparrh. but as he died, he could read and write somethings. he has learnt this from sahaba.

regardind Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (as), as everybody could see, he just learnt the basics of arabic and as u might have laernt quran by a teacher, too, who must not a mufasser or muhaddis or a master of religion, but just a normal teacher, who is teaching u the basics, not the deep meanings of what behind the words is. the same are these teachers, they were not mufassir or muhaddis or something else, unknown persons.

on the other hand. as hazrat moosa (as) was called by Allah to be a nabi, he himself hesitated to be one and asked Allah, that he has killed one person. Allah ne nabi banana hai, nabi ne khud nabi nahi ban na.

on the other hand, we dont know, which book was written first. he wrote more than 82 books.

and on the other hand, do u give a quarantee, that if this question is replied satisfull, u will accept it? dont do the same practice as christians doing against islam, seraching the contradictions in quran and asking themselves, whether this religion is right or not.

first let us discuss about the basics.

is hazrat Isa (as) living or dead?
can there be a prophet (without any new law) or not?

inn massayel se to niklaiN pehle, aage ki baat bhi kar lete haiN.


Please read this note about my opinion

dekhiye

[2:31] And when thy Lord said to the angels, 'I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,' they said 'Wilt Thou place therein such as will cause disorder in it, and shed blood? - and we glorify Thee with Thy praise and extol Thy holiness,' He answered, 'I know what you know not.'

this is one of the ayets in quran, about Hazrat Adam (as). ab iss me yeh likha hai ke unn ko khalifa bana raha hai zameen par. khalifa ka kaam hota hai paigham puhnchana. magar kiss ko? pehla sawal.

phir farishte kehte haiN ke "Ai Allah tu iss me woh banayega jo khoon bahata hai aur fassad karta hai?" agar hazrat Adam (as) pehle insan the to farishtoN ko kaisay pata chala ke insan khoon bahate haiN aur fassad karte haiN? doosra sawal

kya farishte alimul ghaib haiN ya the?

khair, iss aayet se yehi nateeja nikalta hai ke insan maujood the pehle bhi, unn insanon me pehla nabi ya pehla khalifa hazrat adam (as) the. this is what i think and what i believe.

and about other creatures before insan. of course there were creatures, since "creator" is Allah ki aik sifft hai which is forever like all others, too. insan nahi raheNge to bhi Allah creating karta rahe ga. insaan se pehle bhi creator tha.



Please read this note about my opinion

wahin par tayammum, if aap ke peeche namazi kharre hue haiN to.

agar aap bina kissi namazi ko disturb kiye bina nikal sakte haiN to phir nikal kar wuzu kar leN.


Please read this note about my opinion

@badal

thanks a lot yaar for this correction. this ayet was not in my mind at that time. buhat buhat shukria.

@sall

well i meant, the meat of that animals, which are allowed, is allowed to eat, if it is made for the purpose of eating. if no name is pronounced, that doesnt mean that u cant pronounce the name of Allah on it. some muslims say ke zibah karte waqt name lena zaroori hai. but in the opinion of some others(e.g.Al-Azhar Kairo University) and in my opinion, too, u could pronounce Allahs name as soon as u get the meat in ur plate.
jiss par Allah ka naam nahi liya hota, uss par khud liya jasakta hai, iss ki shart yehi hai ke gosht khanay ke liye ho na ke kissi aur purpose ke liye, other purpose is e.g. siraf shauqia hi kissi ne shikaar kiya ho aur khaanay ki niyyat na ho.

its the same, as u may eat the meat of animals which ur dogs catch for u. ab dogs kya Allah ka naam lete haiN? but unn ko sikhaya hota hai aur animals ko pakarrne ki niyyat yeh hoti hai ke insan uss gosht ko khaye. to jabb animals ka pakkra hua gosht allow hai to woh gosht, jo ke bana hi khaanay ke liye ho , woh kioN mana hona chahiye? doosra gosht woh mana hai, jiss par Allah ke siwa kissi ka naam liya gya ho, as i said over.

but in this case, i think, this ayet is more precise than the discussion about halal and haram

[5:6] This day all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of the people of the Book is lawful for you. And your food is lawful for them. And lawful for you are chaste believing women and chaste women from among those who were given the Book before you, when you give them their dowries, contracting valid marriage and not committing fornication, nor taking secret paramours. And whoever rejects the faith, his work indeed is vain, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.


Please read this note about my opinion

besides that, ke abhi takk mere cross questioning ka koi jawab nahi aaya. i give here just some references of Muslim Buzurgs, who lived before the time of Promised Messiahs (as). We should know, what these buzurgs thought about "Khatam ul Anbiya".

1. Hazrat Sheikh Ahmad Farooqi
"The rising of prophets after the Khatamar Rasul Hazrat Muhammad, the Chosen One, peace and blessings be upon him, from among his own followers and as a heritage, does not in any way run counter to his status as the Khatamar rasul. Therefore, O reader, do not be among those who doubt."
Maktubat Imam Rabbani, Hazrat Mujaddid Alf Thani

2. Hazrat Imam Muhayyudin ibn arabi
'From the study and contemplation of the Darud we have arrived at the definite conclusion that there shall, from among the Muslims, certainly be persons whose status, in the matter of prophethood, shall advance to the level of prophets, if Allah pleases. But they shall not be given any book of law.'
Fatuhati Makiyyah: Vol 1. pg 545

3. Hazrat Abu Ja'far, while discussing the Quranic verse:
"For verily We granted the Book to the children of Abraham...," said that God vouchsafed to the children of Abraham, Messengers, Prophets and Imams. But what is ironical is that people believe in what God blessed the children of Abraham with and yet they deny this blessing for the progeny of Muhammad."
Al-Saafi Sharah Asool Al-Kaafi, Part 3, Pg. 119

4. Hazrat Abdul wahab sheerani
"..prophethood has not been abolished and it is only law-bearing prophethood that is abolished."
(Al Yawaaqeetu Wal Jawaahir: Vol. 3 pg. 35)

5. The Muhaddith of Dehli, Hazrat Shah Wali Ullah subscribed to this opinion and stated:

'The meaning of the Holy Prophet being the Khataman Nabiyeen is that there shall not now appear a person whom God may appoint with a new Law for mankind, that is to say, there shall be no prophet who shall come with a new Law.'
(Tafheemati Ilahiyyah pg. 53)

6. The Hakim ul Millat Hazrat Shah wali Ullah again in fact gave credence to the opinion that prophets within the Ummah may arise when he stated:

'There cannot be an independent prophet after the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, who is not his follower and his adherent.'
(Al Khairul Katheer: pg 111)

7.The great saint, Hazrat Maulana Room (Rehmatullah Alaihi) writes:

"Make such plans to perform righteousness in the way of God that you attain prophethood within the Ummat (religious community)"
(Mathnavi Maulana Room, Daftar I, pg. 53)

these are just some of the references.

ab koi inn references. "khatam" ke ajeeb say maani karna is an invention after the promised Messias (as), as its tradition, that wehenever a prophet is made, ppl are against him in the beginning.

so and now some informations for them, who think ke Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat is just a local Jamaat.

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Jammat in Islam is a religious organization, international in its scope, with branches in over 178 countries in Africa, North America, South America, Asia, Australasia, and Europe. At present, its total membership exceeds 200 million worldwide, and the numbers are increasing day by day. This is the most dynamic denomination of Islam in modern history.


what promised messias (as) said:

"O mankind! hear, this is the prophecy of God Who made the Heavens and the Earth. He will spread this Movement in all the countries and will give it supremacy over all through reason and arguments. Remember, no one will descend from heaven. All our opponents who are living at present will die and not one of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, descend from the sky and then their children who survive them will also pass away and none of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, coming down from the heaven. Generations of their posterity will also perish and they too will not see the son of Mary descending from heaven. Then God will create restlessness in their hearts; that the day of the glory of the Cross had passed away and the world had taken another turn but Jesus, son of Mary, had still not come down from the sky. Then all the wise people will discard this belief and the third century from today will not have completed when all those who had been waiting for Jesus, both Muslims and Christians will despair of his coming and entertaining misgivings shall give up their belief and there will be only one Faith in the world and one preceptor. I came only to sow the seed. That seed has been sown by my hands. It will now grow and blossom forth and none dare retard its growth."

(The Promised Messiah in Tazkira-tush-Shahadatain)



Please read this note about my opinion

haha nice said, chalo sulah kar lete hain. cross questions abhi bhi buhat hai, magar topic aap ka hai, kharab nahi karna chahta.

kuch proove nahi karna chahta, siraf batana chahta hun, coz i love pakistani ppl. mere apne haiN. iss liye dard rakhta hun unn ke liye. nothing more. iss liye arguments ki baat karta hun.

nahoosat wali baar buhat baar parrhi to main daNwa dol ho gya ke bukhari jaisi kitaab me yeh sabb kuch. after research i found ke hadees poori nahi thi.poori hadees aap ko doosri kitabon me milegi, matlab hadees ka yeh tha ke, Anhazrat (saws) ne farmaya tha ke zamana jaheliyyat me teen cheezon ki nahoossat maani jaati thi. ab dekh lijiye, kuch words ne hadees hi badal de.

ok. imagine. there are some teachers. they have students. every teacher has the same task, to teach. ab aik sabb se best hai, woh iss liye ke uss ke uss ke students uss se taleem paakar khud bhi teachers bann sakte haiN, this is the proof, that he is the best. and new teachers are not gonna teach something else, wuhi sikhayeNge jo uss best teacher se seekha hai. apne wajood me siraf best hona aur koi proove na dena best hone ka, yeh kya baat hui bhala? i will open later one topic about "khatam" and i will give there references and opinions about the word "Khatam" of all the buzurgs of islam, who were before Ahamadiyya Muslim Jamaat.

if abu hureira(ra) is narrating, then hadis is almostly sahi. but the fact is, that u cant take everyword wordly. there are sometimes very deep meanings of words. islam is not a superficial religion. words ke ander ki meanings dhoondni hoti hai. what i read is about the umar of these prophets, too. hazrat nooh(ra) ki umar hazaar sal thi or like this. i am not sure but there are some ahadees about the umars of prophets, too, where unn ki umreN are about hazar saals. one of the interpretation could be the age of there teachings, coz a prophet lives for his task of teachings, which he brings from Allah. Prophet ka aur koi kaam nahi hota, so his age means the age of his teachings. and age of his teachigns means, woh sara waqt, jiss me unn ki taleem sahi rahi, bad me bigarr gayi logon ke zariye.

besides upper advice Anhazrat (saws) darmiyanay qadd ke the. yeh peer faqeer phir lambe kaise hogaye? aur phir bhi unn ke lambe hone me konsi barrai hai. and iss ke bawajood. jabb Anhazrat (saws) ke mizaar ki koi iss tarah pooja nahi karta to inn peeroN ki itni pooja kioN ki jaati hai? i think these are influences from hinduism since these practices are found almostyl in pakistan and india and hindu influenced countries.

and 1400 ki baat nahi hai, 6000 years pehle bhi itne lambe insan nahi the. itne lambe insaan the hi nahi. jabb dinosaurs ke dhanche mill gaye hain, jo ke milions years pehle ke the, aur kissi insan ka dhancha mila hi nahi, jo tha pehle, to that means ACCORDING TO THE MODERN SCIENCES gupp hai.

aik hadees ke mutabaq yeh bhi hai ke har aadam (as) ka zamana 7000 years hai. and so on and so on. ab iss ka kya matlab ke HAR AADAM(as)? aur bhi AAdam (as) the kya? and 7000 pehle to civilisation thi hi. hamara harrappa hi 4000-5000 saal purana hai. wahan ke log to chotte hote the, like hamare pakistani. about 170cm.

yehi to problem hai.

salam again

now i just serached some of the verses from quran. i give here the english translation of these verses, right.

urdu translation jiss ne parrhni ho parrh le. the link of english translation is given at the end of this posting, hopeful, no admin will take this as ad, this is a reference of that online translation.

so here we go.

hawkins yeh kehta hai ke universe was siraf chotta sa gola tha, like a nut, akhrot ke daane barabar tha jo ke explode hua aur expanding still. and if we read quran with mind and heart, we found saari ki saari aaj ki theories in quran, too. not only hawkins but the scientists als declare that at the end of the universe, it will collapse in itself again.

so i know give some interesting verses from quran. well actuall the whole surat Anbiya is recomendable for u, specially SALL. uss me aur bhi buhat se ikhtilaafi masaayel ka jawab maujood hai, e.x. kya koi insan bina maut ke aasmaan par reh sakta hai ya nahi, wagheira wagheira.

first:
[21:31] Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed up-mass, then We opened them out? And We made of water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

[21:105] 'The day when We shall roll up the heavens like the rolling up of written scrolls by a scribe.' As We began the first creation, So shall We repeat it - a promise binding upon US; We shall certainly fulfil it.

[39:68] And they have not formed a true concept of the attributes of Allah. And the entire earth will be under His complete control on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens   rolled up in His right hand. Glory be to Him and exalted is He above that which they associate with Him.

[41:12] Then He turned to the heaven, while it was   something like smoke, and said to it and to the earth; 'Come ye both of you in obedience, willingly or unwillingly.' They said, 'We come willingly.'

jaldi me yehi mili hain abhi. well all the things written in these verses, is exactly, what the astronomic physics says. even the words like "black hole" are described in quran as the signs of the so calles end-time. and as we know, the idea and the existence of black hole is an invention of the last century. after the theories of einstein. something like smoke. wow i like this termination. look how precise quran is, smoke is defined as a mixture of no solutable particals with water. but something like smoke doesn include water since we dont know, if there is water outside in cosmos or not.

and for u especially 39:8, 39:9, 39:35

bible ko chorro. koi bible ka banda hi bataye uss ki stroy of creation. i know it and in my opinion its not scientific, so most of the scientists dont believe on it.

link for
this quran translation



Please read this note about my opinion

SALL said:

how was world created.....
konsa version chahiye
s hawkings ya phir Quran/Bible wala

ooops madame sall,

i think the quranic version is nearer to hawkings version and not to that of bible. bible me to aik kahani likhi hui hai without any basis.

quran ne aaj takk ki sciences ke khilaaf koi baat nahi ki. haaN yeh baat alag hai ke aap ne kya samjha, aap ne kya paaya.

i will come to this topic with verses later. "universe in the nut" thats, what quran said, too.


Please read this note about my opinion