It was then called "African Shakespeare"

I read that poem in 2000.

easier said than done

i c
but that can not be generalized. But that's pretty common in Pak.

srk, how does that matter?

So, our enemy is our arrogance, and the real culprit is our ignorance. We want to fight! let's fight and beat the beast. We can't do that while indulging in the same thing. Its not easy but its not impossible either.

Now, are you askin what we think and how we percieve fate?

rap, you are right from that stand point.

I meant to say, people are only reacting out of emotion for symbolic / ritualistic purposes without actually knowing why they are doing that. Their emotions are immediately touched and they react violently upon that. On the other hand, our society is ignoring, and to a great extent rejecting what Allah and His rasool have asked us to live by. Is that not utter disrespect and mockery of Allah and His messenger and the Book He sent upon him?

I simply meant there is a deep rooted hypocracy in our society.

Not yet but planning for next year or the year later.

We live by two standards.
For our worldly affairs, we hesitate very little to accept any ideas and means necessary for success - without regard for if it is islamic or unIslamic.

For our spiritual affairs, we want rituals and some figures of reverance. Most people have little knowledge of rituals they perform.

Ideals and standards for both affairs seriously contradict each other. In one way of life we want to fulfill every desire and welcome satanic whisperings. In the other way of life, we want to slam doors on satan.

Tell me, can you keep the cake and eat the cake at the same time?

rite bazi, we accepted things as we were told. he hardly questioned about it and if we did, we were told, "you don't believe in it..."

Ofcourse, to teach is to learn twice. we need to know before we could teach others. There are explanations of Hoorul-ain from ahadeeth and interpretations of Quranic ayat. I just didn't want to say my opinion on such subjects. I will try to get authentic answers for you. I am searching and if someone else could find something, please post it.

Now, before it goes outa hand, I must mention this: We need not judge Quran by western or eastern or any other standard of civilization. Quran is "the standard". Those who want to pick and choose from it to their liking, its their business with Allah.

Whatever has been permitted in Islam cannot be made haram or prohibited or called uncivilized action by none... and i emphasize, " by none". If someone doesn't like it, too bad!

Sall, to your question, Husband and wife have equal responsibility to correct each other. Quran says, "Men have authority over women." (authority is not meant in terms of rulership as there isn't any accurate translation for the word "Qaw-wa-moon"). By virtue of that ayah and others in the Quran and tradition of the prophet, men carry a greater responsibility. Nonetheless, it doesn't take away wife's responsibility. There are many ahadeeth and Ayat from Quran that support corrective role for women. It is just that men have greater responsibility and accountability as well.

From the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir on Ayah 5-10 of Surat An-Nur (24: 5-10)

Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn `Abbas said: "When the Ayah

(And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever) [24:4] was revealed, Sa`d bin `Ubadah, may Allah be pleased with him, -- the leader of the Ansar -- said, `Is this how it was revealed, O Messenger of Allah' The Messenger of Allah said:

(O Ansar, did you hear what your leader said) They said, `O Messenger of Allah, do not blame him, for he is a jealous man. By Allah, he never married a woman who was not a virgin, and he never divorced a woman but none of us would dare to marry her because he is so jealous.' Sa`d said, `By Allah, O Messenger of Allah, I know that it (the Ayah) is true and is from Allah, but I am surprised. If I found some wicked man lying down with my wife, should I not disturb him until I have brought four witnesses By Allah, he would have finished what he was doing before I could bring them!' A little while later, Hilal bin Umayyah -- one of the three whose repentance had been accepted -- came back from his lands at night and found a man with his wife. He saw with his own eyes and heard with his own ears, but he did not disturb him until the morning. In the morning he went to the Messenger of Allah and said, `O Messenger of Allah, I came to my wife at night and found a man with her, and I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.' The Messenger of Allah did not like what he had said and got very upset. The Ansar gathered around him and said, `We were being tested by what Sa`d bin Ubadah said, and now the Messenger of Allah will punish Hilal bin Umayyah and declare his testimony before people to be unacceptable.' Hilal said: `By Allah, I hope that Allah will make for me a way out from this problem.' Hilal said, `O Messenger of Allah, I see how upset you are by what I have said, but Allah knows that I am telling the truth.' By Allah, the Messenger of Allah wanted to have him flogged, but then Allah sent revelation to His Messenger . When the revelation came upon him, they knew about it from the change in his face, so they would leave him alone until the revelation was finished. Allah revealed the Ayah:

(And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies by Allah...,) Then the revelation was finished and the Messenger of Allah said,

(Rejoice, O Hilal, for Allah has made a way out for you.) Hilal said, `I had been hoping for this from my Lord, may He be glorified.' The Messenger of Allah said:

(Send for her.) So they sent for her and she came. The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah to them both, and reminded them that the punishment of the Hereafter is more severe than the punishment in this world. Hilal said, `By Allah, O Messenger of Allah, I have spoken the truth about her.' She said, `He is lying.' The Messenger of Allah said,

(Make them both swear the Li`an.) So Hilal was told, `Testify.' So he testified four times by Allah that he was one of those who speak the truth. When he came to the fifth testimony, he was told, `O Hilal, have Taqwa of Allah, for the punishment of this world is easier than the punishment of the Hereafter, and this will mean that the punishment will be inevitable for you.' He said, `By Allah, Allah will not punish me for it, just as He has not caused me to be flogged for it.' So he testified for the fifth time that the curse of Allah would be upon him if he was telling a lie. Then it was said to his wife, `Testify four times by Allah that he is telling a lie.' And when his wife reached the fifth testimony, she was told, `Have Taqwa of Allah, for the punishment of this world is easier than the punishment of the Hereafter, and this will mean that the punishment will be inevitable for you.' She hesitated for a while, and was about to admit her guilt, then she said: `By Allah, I will not expose my people to shame, and she swore the fifth oath that the wrath of Allah would be upon her if he was telling the truth.' Then the Messenger of Allah separated them, and decreed that her child should not be attributed to any father, nor should the child be accused, and whoever accused her or her child, they would be subject to punishment. He also decreed that [Hilal] was not obliged to house her or feed her, because they had not been separated by divorce, nor had he died and left her a widow. He said,

(If she gives birth to a red-haired child (with skinny thighs) and thin legs, then he is Hilal's child, but if she gives birth to a curly-haired child with thick legs and plump buttocks, then this is what she is accused of.) She subsequently gave birth to a child who was curly-haired with thick legs and plump buttocks, and the Messenger of Allah said,

(Were it not for the oath that she swore, I would deal with her.)'' `Ikrimah said, "The child grew up to become the governor of Egypt, and he was given his mother's name and was not attributed to any father.'' Abu Dawud recorded a similar but briefer report. This Hadith has corroborating reports in the books of Sahih and elsewhere, with many chains of narration, including the report narrated by Al-Bukhari from Ibn `Abbas, that Hilal bin Umayyah accused his wife before the Prophet with Sharik bin Sahma'. The Prophet said,

(Evidence or the punishment on your back.) He said, "O Messenger of Allah, if any one of us saw a man with his wife, how could he go and get evidence'' The Prophet again said,

(Evidence otherwise the punishment on your back.) Hilal said, "By the One Who sent you with the truth! I am telling the truth and Allah will reveal something that will protect my back from the punishment. '' Then Jibril came down and brought the revelation,

(And for those who accuse their wives,) Then he recited until he reached: (that he is one of those who speak the truth) [24:6]. When the revelation had finished, the Prophet sent for them both. Hilal came and gave his testimony, and the Prophet said,

(Allah knows that one of you is lying. Will one of you repent) Then she stood up and gave her testimony, and when she reached the fifth oath, they stopped her and said, "If you swear the fifth oath and you are lying, the curse of Allah will be inevitable.'' Ibn `Abbas said, "She hesitated and kept quiet until we thought that she had changed her mind, then she said, `I will not dishonor my people today', and she went ahead. Then the Messenger of Allah said, (Wait until she gives birth, and if she gives birth to a child whose eyes look as if they are ringed with kohl and who has plump buttocks and thick legs, then he is the child of Sharik bin Sahma'.) She gave birth to a child who matched this description, and the Prophet said,

(Were it not for the Book of Allah, I would deal with her.) This version was recorded only by Al-Bukhari, but the event has been narrated with additional chains of narration from Ibn `Abbas and others. Imam Ahmad recorded that Sa`id bin Jubayr said: During the governorship of Ibn Az-Zubayr I was asked about the couple who engage in Li`an, and whether they should be separated, and I did not know the answer. I got up and went to the house of Ibn `Umar, and said, "O Abu `Abdur-Rahman, should the couple who engage in Li`an be separated'' He said, "Subhan Allah, the first one to ask about this was so-and-so the son of so-and-so. He said, `O Messenger of Allah, what do you think of a man who sees his wife committing an immoral sin If he speaks he will be speaking about something very serious, and if he keeps quiet he will be keeping quiet about something very serious.' [The Prophet ] kept quiet and did not answer him. Later on, he came to him and said, `What I asked you about is something with which I myself being tested with.' Then Allah revealed the Ayat,

(And for those who accuse their wives,) until he reached:

(That the wrath of Allah be upon her if he speaks the truth.) He started to advise the man and remind him about Allah, and told him that the punishment of this world is easier than the punishment of the Hereafter. The man said: `By the One Who sent you with the truth, I was not telling you a lie.' Then the Prophet turned to the woman and advised the woman and reminded her about Allah, and told her that the punishment of this world is easier than the punishment of the Hereafter. The woman said, `By the One Who sent you with the truth, he is lying.' So [the Prophet ] started with the man, who swore four times by Allah that he was one of those who speak the truth, and swore the fifth oath that the curse of Allah would be upon him if he were lying. Then he turned to the woman, who swore four times by Allah that he was lying, and swore the fifth oath that the wrath of Allah would be upon her if he was telling the truth. Then he separated them.'' It was also recorded by An-Nasa'i in his Tafsir, and by Al-Bukhari and Muslim in the Two Sahihs.

Bazigaar said:

Smooth_daddy said:

explain dishonoring husband. It is subjective as what fares as honor. I didn't want to assume that.

let's say cheating on him

wo!!
that's a very serious thing and that subject has been addressed in the Quran. There are restrictions and limitations on how and what to do. There is no mention of beating in it. Ramifications of cheating are, however, very strict and tough.

good work bazi. I'm wid ya

shahrukh khan said:

Smooth_daddy said:

shahrukh khan said:

Smooth_daddy said:

Do you mean, patience SRK! I don't believe in patience because it means to take suffering and do nothing about it.

I strongly believe in perseverance. It means takeing hardship and inflictions while striving on whatever action you are taking to change the situation / condition.

sabar ka phal meetha hai...what can you do in this situation?

I don't know what you mean by that and I don't think you got my point either. I was asking what did you mean by sabr? Do you mean patience or you meant perseverance?

perserverance

Then we don't just become lame ducks. We do something to take care of the problem.

shahrukh khan said:

Smooth_daddy said:

BadShaH1 said:

SD what type of protests do u suggest.

write to the editors of major newspapers.
send email messages to authorities and legislators showing your unhappiness toward the issue.
Have petition signing campaign and send your petition to concerned authorities and news outlets.

Remember, the hurt they inflickted upon muslims all over the world was not with violence and bombing. With the stroke of a pen they caused more hurt them all their bombs together in recent history.

wont help

like protests are!

BadShaH1 said:

SD what type of protests do u suggest.

write to the editors of major newspapers.
send email messages to authorities and legislators showing your unhappiness toward the issue.
Have petition signing campaign and send your petition to concerned authorities and news outlets.

Remember, the hurt they inflickted upon muslims all over the world was not with violence and bombing. With the stroke of a pen they caused more hurt them all their bombs together in recent history.

BShah, I got your point and I say this: why do we have to come to streets and give miscreants an opportunity to use that an occasion to forward their agenda. There are many other ways to protest and yet achieve better results.

shahrukh khan said:

Smooth_daddy said:

Do you mean, patience SRK! I don't believe in patience because it means to take suffering and do nothing about it.

I strongly believe in perseverance. It means takeing hardship and inflictions while striving on whatever action you are taking to change the situation / condition.

sabar ka phal meetha hai...what can you do in this situation?

I don't know what you mean by that and I don't think you got my point either. I was asking what did you mean by sabr? Do you mean patience or you meant perseverance?

8 years old boy died in Peshawar with a stray bullet hitting him in the head. What's the business of an 8 year old in protests? Why do we expose children's minds to violence?

It ain't anybody's chall. they are doing what they believe in and what our people are doing is what they believe in. Mature people take responsibility for their action. Shifting blames on others dont get us off the hook.

Besides, if it is indeed a chall, how many times our people are going fall in the trap? When are we going to learn our lessons? When are we going grow up?

Do you mean, patience SRK! I don't believe in patience because it means to take suffering and do nothing about it.

I strongly believe in perseverance. It means takeing hardship and inflictions while striving on whatever action you are taking to change the situation / condition.

explain dishonoring husband. It is subjective as what fares as honor. I didn't want to assume that.

Quran has promised pure wives for those who will enter pardise. Hoors have been mentioned in the Quran as females. I do not want to say about how it would relate to women entering pardise before checking the authenticity of it.

Whatever we know about Akhirah is only what we have been informed about. There remains a lot of untold information, icluding hoors description, gender (if other than female)...

that's why I am saying, Islam only permits to hit with something that doesn't hurt the body but enough to get them to know your extreme displeasure. This type of hitting (not to be misunderstood as repeated hitting) can not be categorized as beating or abuse. This is just like when you punish your child, you don't do it to hurt the child but to make them realize that their acts are not acceptable, especially when corrected so many times before this. You slap the child on the wrist not to leave a mark or hurt it but to correct certain behavior.

This tool has to be used judiciously and only in circumstances where wife disregards husbands in matters in which she is required to regard and respect husbands authority. This too is after many reminders and corrections and only when use of physical correction in the manner stated above would not be taken as harsh treatment by the spouse. Relationship between spouses and understanding between them actually determines use of a physical corrective measure.

Allah knows the wisdon of it. What I wrote is my understanding and if someone has hadeeth or ayah from Quran to correct me please do so. I will appreciate you and correct my self.

they are a creations of Allah and made for those who will enter into pardise.

You know what, I never thought about Hoors and desired them as my desire is to earn the pleasure of Allah and I will accept whatever he bestows me with.

you bet! its the most fun thing - just kidding!!!

Its a very sensitive subject. Particularly women / girls are very touchy about it. I will dare to give my two cents and hope I won't stir any controversy.

it is not ok to hit/beat wife in any circumstances. Islam permits it in very selected situations and that too is with something like miswak. The purpose is not to hurt but show displeasure in extreme situations. People who mistakenly assume it is their God given right to beat on a wife are grossly wrong. Allah created women as mate for men and vice versa. Women were not created as slaves for men nor they should be treated as such.

Entering into a marital relationship via profound and divine proclamation gives both partners solemn protection and rights under the laws of sharia. Such protections include sfety against physical, verbal and emotional abuse.

that's why I called them idiots because they are blinded by their emotions.

Reshambaalwali said:

Whomsoever mocks Islam shall be butchered! No mercy shown!! And this is to those blasphemous animals who respect their so-called "Freedon of speech" in Denmark!

that would be against the teachings of Islam.